Category Archives: Price Rollback

I'm a Believer

Can the zealots of Irvine support house prices throughout this crash? Can the belief in price crash immunity be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

43 Leucadia  Irvine, CA 92602 kitchen

Asking Price: $499,000

Address: 43 Leucadia #76 Irvine, CA 92602

Whats the use in tryin?
All you get is pain.
When I needed sunshine I got rain.

I’m a Believer — The Monkees

Kool Aid Man

Kool aid intoxication is a religious dogma, and many people are Losing Their Religion (great post from last year).

People who are buying in today’s market in Irvine are paying more to own a house than it costs to rent it. This has been the case since the turn of the millennium, and few people outside the readership of this blog think that will ever change. Why do they believe that? And why do we believe prices will get so low that renting is more more expensive than owning? It it all a matter of faith?

Historically, when prices crash, they fall until it is cheaper to own than to rent because there is no speculative investment value in an asset with a declining price; therefore, there is no real reason to buy until ownership saves you money over renting — unless you believe the market has bottomed. This fact keeps would-be buyers on the sidelines until prices are reasonable. This phenomenon has happened in the two previous busts, but without the fanfare of a blog like this one.

There are two features of this bust that are different than the last one that may have an impact on prices: (1) the strength of the kool aid, and (2) the internet providing greater access to information.

Since there were so many people that were so rewarded by owning houses during the bubble, there are still large numbers of people in the market that will pay nearly any price to own. These are the knife catchers buying homes on faith — faith that appreciation will return. If there are enough of these people, it may become a self-fulfilling prophesy. If the past is any indicator of the future, the kool aid intoxicated will be the knife catchers providing liquidity on the way to the bottom.

The other big change this time around is the presence of blogs like this one to serve as a voice of reason in a kool aid intoxicated world. By presenting history, reason, fact-based arguments and a conceptual framework for understanding how and why prices rise and fall, the readers here have guidelines that will help them establish what reasonable valuations are when when house prices are approaching that range of bottoming values. In the past, this information was not widely available.

Will either of these differences impact the market? I doubt it; the housing market is much too large. If house prices do not reach rental parity across Irvine, many will claim it is because Irvine is so desirable that houses here represent a “reservoir of value.” The reality is that this reservoir is akin to a Holy Grail; it is an ordinary cup given special significance due to the faithful.

Our house prices are being supported by the zeal of Irvine buyers. Are there enough of them to sustain the market indefinitely? I doubt it.

43 Leucadia  Irvine, CA 92602 kitchen

Asking Price: $499,000

Income Requirement: $124,750

Downpayment Needed: $99,800

Purchase Price: $520,000

Purchase Date: 12/1/2003

Address: 43 Leucadia #76 Irvine, CA 92602

Beds: 3
Baths: 3
Sq. Ft.: 1,826
$/Sq. Ft.: $273
Lot Size:
Property Type: Condominium
Style: Other
Stories: 2
Floor: 2
View: Park or Green Belt
Year Built: 2002
Community: Northpark
County: Orange
MLS#: P692169
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 15 days

*********************NORTHPARK COMMUNITY******************** Beautiful
and spacious 3 Bedrooms, 3 Full Bath, 2 Attached Garage W/ Extra
Storage Space. Main Floor Bedroom W/ One Full Bath. Master Bedroom Has
Walk-In Closet W/ Huge Bathroom.Many Upgardes, Built -In Entertainment
Center. Just Steps To Elementry School & Beckman Highschool and
very close to freeway.

Did the realtor use enough asterisks?

  • This property was purchased on 12/1/2003 for $520,000. The owner used a $389,925 first mortgage, a $77,985 second mortgage, and a $52,090 downpayment.
  • On 11/2/2004 he opened a HELOC for $145,000.
  • On 4/15/2005 he refinanced with a $487,500 Option ARM with a 1.25% teaser rate.
  • On 6/24/2005 he opened a HELOC for $102,900.
  • Total property debt is $590,400 if he maxed the HELOC.
  • Total mortgage equity withdrawal is $122,490.
  • In late 2008, he stopped paying on his mortgage.

Foreclosure Record
Recording Date: 03/16/2009
Document Type: Notice of Default
Document #: 2009000121341

If this owner did max out the HELOC, if this sells for its asking price, and if a 6% commission is paid, the total loss to the lender will be $121,340.

This is another 2003 Rollback.

Ball and Chain **Update**

The price on this property is now under $6,000,000. The owner is asking $1,000,000 less than what was paid.

Real estate is notoriously illiquid. When you want to sell it, there is not always a buyer there to unchain it from your ankle.

Today’s featured property is looking at a potential million dollar loss.

29 Blue Grass inside

Asking Price: $6,495,000

Address: 29 Blue Grass, Irvine, CA 92603

Ball and Chain — Social Distortion

Times are hard getting harder
I’m born to lose and destined to fail

Real estate is illiquid. Perhaps you have heard that term before. One of the main criticisms of owning real estate as an asset class is its lack of liquidity, but what does that really mean? Liquidity is the ability to sell an asset and convert it to cash. In case you haven’t noticed, right now, real estate is not very liquid.

Liquidity risk is one of those esoteric and academic concerns that does not apply to the real world–or so people thought during the bubble. When prices were rallying, real estate was very liquid. If you would have put a property for sale in 2004, you would have obtained multiple bids over the ask within days. Real estate was nearly as liquid as stocks during that time. Like every other condition during a financial mania, people assumed this would also go on forever.

{book4}

When stock prices crash, there is still liquidity. You may have to discount the price a few pennies to find a bidder, but there is always a bidder willing to pay something close to the most recent transaction price. In real estate, this is not the case. When a credit crunch causes a drastic reduction in potential buyer’s ability to make bids, offer prices can drop very quickly while the asking prices of sellers do not. This increasing bid/ask spread is one of the telltale signs of a real estate market price collapse.

We joke about the phenomena here. We remark on the denial and delusion of sellers and their WTF asking prices. We see the collapse of demand caused by restricting credit; sellers do not. For instance, look at these two Woodbridge properties: 79 Lakeview Irvine,
CA 92604, Price:
$590,000
; and 24 Lakeview Irvine,
CA 92604
, Price:
$699,000
. The less expensive property is asking $289/SF while the more expensive one is dreaming $421/SF. The former owner accepts reality; the latter owner does not.

The illiquidity of real estate makes property a ball-and-chain. The owners are looking for relief, but they are not going to find any.

Take away, take away
Take away this ball and chain
Well I’m lonely and I’m tired
And I can’t take any more pain

Today’s featured property is a high-end ball-and-chain. It is only being discounted 7% off its peak purchase price. That doesn’t sound like much, but 7% of this purchase price is $500,000!

29 Blue Grass inside

Asking Price: $6,495,000IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: You’re not financing this one.

Downpayment Needed: You are probably paying cash.

Monthly Equity Burn: More than you can imagine.

Purchase Price: $7,000,000

Purchase Date: 8/2/2006

Address: 29 Blue Grass, Irvine, CA 92603

Beds: 6
Baths: 9
Sq. Ft.: 7,600
$/Sq. Ft.: $855
Lot Size: 0.5

Acres

Property Type: Single Family Residence
Style: Santa Barbara
Year Built: 2006
Stories: 3+
View: Canyon, Golf Course, Panoramic
Area: Turtle Rock
County: Orange
MLS#: U9000309
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 47 days

Gourmet Kitchen Award

Ambiance of a Santa Barbara Spanish home, & casual, resort-style
grounds modeled after those of timeless Montecito estates. Lovely rooms
featuring high ceilings & adorned in luxury finishes from Richard
Marshall hardwood flooring to Venetian plaster, Walker Zanger stone and
tile and custom window treatments. Home features an eminently livable
5-6 bedroom, 7.5 bath floorplan, with one bedroom currently used as an
office and another in a private casita with kitchenette. Every room
features peaceful vistas of the Shady Canyon Golf Course, hills,
canyons, or the beautiful gardens. Main level master suite with
fireplace, private terrace, stunning bath & dual dressing rooms; as
well as living & dining rooms, wine room; gourmet kitchen;
subterranean level with 4-car parking, fitness room, bonus playroom.
Gorgeous landscaping with olive trees & succulents, a shimmering
pool & spa, numerous terraces/covered loggias, BBQ area & 2
outdoor fireplaces.

Either John McMonigle is a good writer, or he hires one. That description describes the property well, it uses a few well-placed modifiers, the grammar and spelling are correct, and most importantly, it did not pain me to read it. I guess when you list a $6.5 million property, you get quality description copy.

This property was purchased for $7,000,000 on 8/2/2006. The owner used a $5,600,000 first mortgage and a $1,400,000 downpayment. Can you imagine the payments on a $5,600,000 loan? Wow! Despite the huge financing amount, this owner must have some real money. He refinanced on 2/7/2007 for $4,900,000. To do that, he had to pay down the original note by $700,000. It is still a huge loan, but a distressed homeowner doesn’t have $700,000 sitting around to pay down mortgages. This guy does.

If this property sells for its purchase price, and if a 6% commission is paid (John McMonigle would make $389,700), the total loss on the property would be $894,700.

It is difficult to project what will happen to properties like this one. Properties over $2,000,000 historically have not been financed (although the bubble changed that somewhat). The cash market for these very high-end properties cannot be valued by a rental income based approach. People with that much money are not using financing, and rental parity is not a concern to them. If you are rich enough to pay cash for a property like this, you buy it because you want it.

The very rich that buy properties like this are still subject to changes in wealth and income like the rest of us. Many of these people are suffering from drops in the stock markets and other asset class valuations. This may or may not cause them to sell real estate. During our last real estate recession, high-end properties like these got hammered. They might get pummeled again.

{book3}

Well it’s been ten years and a thousand tears
And look at the mess I’m in
A broken nose and a broken heart,
An empty bottle of gin
Well I sit and I pray
In my broken down Chevrolet
While I’m singin’ to myself
There’s got to be another way

[Chorus:]
Take away, take away
Take away this ball and chain
Well I’m lonely and I’m tired
And I can’t take any more pain
Take away, take away
Never to return again
Take away, take away
Take away
Take away this ball and chain

Well I’ll pass the bar on the way
To my dingy hotel room
I spent all my money
I’ve been drinkin’ since half past noon
Well I’ll wake there in the mornin’
Or maybe in the county jail
Times are hard getting harder
I’m born to lose and destined to fail

Ball and Chain — Social Distortion

Turtle Rock is Not Immune

Turtle Rock is the one neighborhood I least expect to see dramatic price declines; however, this does not mean it is not immune to the pressures of the market.

2 Sarena kitchen

Asking Price: $949,000

Address: 2 Sarena, Irvine, CA 92612

{book6}

Secret O’ Life — James Taylor

I have been battling with recession stress lately. Unemployment in
the residential real estate industry is somewhere between 50% and 80%.
It is difficult to keep your spirits up when all you hear about are
layoffs. Sometimes it is good to relax and remember…

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time
Any fool can do it
There aint nothing to it

It is not as easy as it should be in times like these.

Nobody knows how we got to
The top of the hill
But since were on our way down
We might as well enjoy the ride

Turtle Rock is one of the original Irvine Villages, and it has a large number of long-term homeowners. There should not be as much toxic financing here as in other villages, but as we have seen on previous posts, there is plenty of HELOC abuse causing problems. Prices here will fall, but it should not be as catastrophic in Turtle Rock as it will be in Turtle Ridge.

This is a pretty home. At least the knife catcher who buys here can enjoy their gilded cage.

2 Sarena kitchen

Asking Price: $949,000

WTF

Income Requirement: $237,250

Downpayment Needed: $189,000

Monthly Equity Burn: $7,908

Purchase Price: $1,200,000

Purchase Date: 3/15/2006

Address: 2 Sarena, Irvine, CA 92612

Beds: 3
Baths: 3
Sq. Ft.: 2,328
$/Sq. Ft.: $408
Lot Size:
Property Type: Condominium
Style: Contemporary
Year Built: 1987
Stories: 2
Floor: 1
View: Estuary
County: Orange
MLS#: U9001823
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 1 day

New Listing (24 hours)

The finest home for sale today in Turtlerock Pointe. See the pictures and slide show for proof.

Short and sweet–perhaps a bit too short.

I wonder if this owner reads Shakespeare, “Beware the Ides of March”

This property was purchase on 3/15/2006. The owner used a $500,000 first mortgage, and a $700,000 downpayment. He may be pissed about this loss, but this is certainly not a distressed sale. Kudos to him for recognizing it is a good time to bail.

If this property sells for its asking price, and if a 6% commission is paid, the total loss to the homeowner will be $307,940.

I know it shouldn’t make a difference, but I do feel bad for the people that lose their own money. We can speculate that it was appreciation from a prior sale, and it might be, but it is still a lot of money to lose. Bummer.

{book5}

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time
Any fool can do it
There aint nothing to it
Nobody knows how we got to
The top of the hill
But since were on our way down
We might as well enjoy the ride

Isnt it a lovely ride
Sliding down
Gliding down
Try not to try too hard
Its just a lovely ride


Secret O’ Life
— James Taylor

It's Not the Economy, Stupid.

Many people seem to think the housing market will recover when the economy does. The economy is not the cause of problems in the housing market, and economic recovery will not save the housing market.

The rollbacks keep getting going further back in time. We are now seeing rollbacks of 2003 pricing more frequently.

143 Stanford Court inside

Asking Price: $380,000

Address: 143 Stanford Court #36, Irvine, CA 92612

The Scientist — Coldplay

I was just guessing
At numbers and figures
Pulling the puzzles apart

I want to let you in on a little secret; all market prognostication is guesswork. Many people looked at the same puzzle pieces I did and came to different conclusions. For several years, oracles like Gary Watts were right with their bullish predictions, and for a time, I was very incorrect in my bearish outlook. The bearish sentiment has been running very high on the blog lately. Most of this bearishness is justified because market conditions are pretty grim; however, we must always keep in mind the possibility that we are wrong.

OK, I considered the idea…

and rejected it…

Prices will still fall. It is pretty hard not to be bearish when you see 2003 rollbacks in 2009. I will note that economists who project overshoot of price fundamentals due to unemployment and foreclosures are guessing. Everyone can look at the same data and determine where affordability lies. The rest is guesswork. Some of these guesses will be good, and some will not. There is less science there than most prognosticators would like to admit.

{book2}

When the housing market peaked back in May of 1990, the economy was doing fine. It was not the economy that caused prices to peak; it was buyer exhaustion and financing limitations just as caused our most recent market peak.

The economy did suffer in the early 90s, but the problems did not not begin until well after the housing market peaked. In fact, scholars have argued that the Housing is the Business Cycle. The problems with the economy of the early 90s were rooted in a loss of disposable income because homeowners were overextended on their mortgages, and the money they should have been spending in the local economy was instead going to debt service somewhere else. It is a problem we will face going forward as well–unless the foreclosures wipe out the debts of most homeowners. Unfortunately, that would require wiping out most homeowners financially. There are no good solutions.

The other problems with the economy, including the defense industry layoffs, came after the market was already in trouble. These made matters a bit worse, but the layoffs of the early 90s were not the cause of the poor housing market. Prices dropped for 7 consecutive years from 1990-1997. The recession lasted less than one year.

Recessions do serve to make a bad market worse, but they are not the cause of housing market crashes, and the end of the recession does not signal the end of a housing market crash. As you can see from the chart above showing unemployment and recessions, the recession of the early 90s saw a peak in unemployment in 1993. Employment improved from 1993-1997 while house prices continued to drop.

In short, to paraphrase Jim Carville, the campaign manager for Bill Clinton in 1992, it’s NOT the economy, stupid.

143 Stanford Court inside

Asking Price: $380,000

Income Requirement: $95,000

Downpayment Needed: $76,000

Monthly Equity Burn: $3,166

Purchase Price: $413,000

Purchase Date: 12/9/2003

Address: 143 Stanford Court #36, Irvine, CA 92612

Beds: 2
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 1,200
$/Sq. Ft.: $317
Lot Size:
Property Type: Condominium
Style: Other
Year Built: 1986
Stories: 2
Floor: 1
View: City Lights, Treetop, Trees/Woods
County: Orange
MLS#: S570805
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 5 days

GREAT VALUE!!! HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER PRINCETON TOWNHOMES IN UNIVERSITY
TOWN CENTER WITH AWARD-WINNING SCHOOLS FOR ALL LEVELS. THIS 2-STORY,2
BR,1 1/2 BA COMES WITH A DESIRABLE FLOOR PLAN THAT IS FEATURING BRIGHT,
SUNNY, AIRY & SPACIOUS WHICH ALLOWS A NICE COOL BREEZE DURING
SUMMER TIME & A VIEW OF SKYLIGHT AT NIGHT. LOCATED NEAR
UCI,SHOPS,THEATERS, FREEWAYS,RESTAURANTS,FASHION ISLAND & APPRX.10
MIN. FROM THE BEACH. WALK OR BIKE TO NEARLY EVERYTHING.IDEAL FOR
EVERYONE:INVESTORS,COUPLES, SINGLES,KIDS AND/OR STUDENTS. THE HOUSE
OFFERS HIGH VAULTED CEILINGS;AN OPEN OVER-SIZED LIVING ROOM W/FIRE
PLACE; A FORMAL DINNING AREA; 1/2 GUEST BATH DOWNSTAIRS & AN INDOOR
LAUNDRY ROOM. A GRAND SIZE PATIO FOR ENTERTAINING OVERLOOKING A TREE
TOP & WOODLAND VIEWS. CURRENTLY A GARAGE IS BEING USED AS A
WORK-OUT STUDIO. ALL BEDROOMS ARE UPSTAIRS. MASTER HAS WALK-IN CLOSET;
2ND BEDROOM IS AWAY FROM THE MASTER WHICH OFFERS PRIVACY FOR ROOMMATE
PURPOSES. YOU GOT IT ALL!!! LOCATION, LOCATION + VALUE AND FUN!

That description is so bad, I don’t know where to start.

ALL CAPS

Three exclamation points can be found in multiple locations.

If this is so highly sought after and desirable, why is it leading the charge for lower prices?

DINNING?

…IS FEATURING BRIGHT,
SUNNY, AIRY & SPACIOUS… what? There is a list of flowery adjectives and no noun being modified.

A VIEW OF SKYLIGHT AT NIGHT. Does that mean you cannot see the skylight during the day?

IDEAL FOR
EVERYONE:INVESTORS,COUPLES, SINGLES,KIDS AND/OR STUDENTS. How can a property possibly be ideal for everyone?

LOCATION, LOCATION + VALUE AND FUN! It must be an amusement park. Yippee!

There is more in there to pick on, but I have had enough…

  • This property was purchased on 12/9/2003 for $413,000. The owner used a $330,400 first mortgage, a $82,600 second mortgage, and a $0 downpayment.
  • On 9/21/2004 he refinanced with an Option ARM with a 1.25% teaser rate for $425,000.
  • On 11/10/2004 he opened a stand-alone second for $97,000.
  • Total property debt is $522,000.
  • Total mortgage equity withdrawal is $110,000.

If this property sells for its asking price, and if a 6% commission is paid, the total loss to the lender will be $164,800.

{book6}

Tell me your secrets
And nurse me your questions
Oh, let’s go back to the start

Running in circles
Coming up tails
Heads on the science apart

Nobody said it was easy
It’s such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be this hard

Oh take me back to the start

I was just guessing
At numbers and figures
Pulling the puzzles apart

The Scientist — Coldplay

$16,805 Monthly Equity Burn

The North Korean Towers are still dark at night. Prices are still falling and equity is still burning. Even with the huge price reductions, asking prices are still well above fundamental valuations. These units are perhaps the most toxic assets in Orange County.

Marquee at Park Place at Night

Asking Price: $430,000

Address: 3131 Michelson #802, Irvine, CA 92612

Down In It — Nine Inch Nails

Kinda like a cloud I was up way up in the sky and I was feeling some feelings
…but I watched it way too long and that dot was pulling me Down.

I was up above it.
Now Im down in it

I last profiled a property in these towers back in May of 2008 with the post Equity Inferno. The post was very popular. At the time, a realtor who owned the unit was asking $1,080,000 for an eighth floor unit in building 3141. Today we have an eighth floor unit in 3131, the building next door, asking $430,000. That is some serious equity burn.

Just for amusement, I calculated the equity burn for our savvy realtor/investor in 3141 Michelson #808. He paid $1,035,000 three years ago in March of 2006. Over the last 36 months, this property has decline in value $605,000 based on the nearly identical unit being profiled today. That puts the monthly equity burn at $16,805 ($605,000 / 36 = $16,805).

However, you could look at it from his point of view. In May of 2008, this guy tried to sell the place for $1,080,000. Apparently, he must have felt the property was worth this much, if only in his own mind. Therefore, in his world (assuming he accepts the $430,000 comp as the true value), his property has lost $650,000 in value over the last 10 months. That translates to a $65,000 monthly equity burn.

Great investment.

Clearly this qualifies as one of the most toxic assets in Orange County.

3131 Michelson Dr view 3131 Michelson Dr inside

Asking Price: $430,000IrvineRenter

Income Requirement: $107,500

Downpayment Needed: $86,000

Monthly Equity Burn: $3,583

Purchase Price: $679,500

Purchase Date: 1/20/2006

Address: 3131 Michelson #802, Irvine, CA 92612

Beds: 2
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 1,367
$/Sq. Ft.: $315
Lot Size:
Property Type: Condominium
Style: Contemporary/Modern
Year Built: 2006
Stories: 1
Floor: 8
View: City Lights, City
Area: Airport Area
County: Orange
MLS#: S568365
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 4 days

Enjoy this Luxury Home.. The best in convenient living in Irvine’s
first Luxury High-rise Towers. This lowest priced popular C plan at The
Marquee Park Place features a 2BR & 2BA plus a Den floor plan. Walk
to restaurants , retail and more. This unit also features GE Monogram
stainless appliances, granite countertops, rich cherrywood floors &
Cabinetry, marble finishes in the bath. Enjoy the amennities of 24 hour
concierge, guard gate, billard & meeting rooms, fitness center,
pool, spa, and BBQ’s..

amennities? billard?

For whatever reason, the database on these properties is difficult to sort through. I cannot find the mortgage information. From what we do know, this property is being offered for 37% off its purchase price. If the property sells for asking, and if a 6% commission is paid, the total loss on the property will be $275,300.

I must confess, I get a special schadenfreude from this property. The hubris of buyers there was best epitomized by the exchanged I documented in the last post on these towers. I still think of those poor souls who drank the kool aid and purchased there… and I giggle.

{book2}

Kinda like a cloud I was up way up in the sky and I was feeling some feelings
You wouldnt believe sometimes I dont believe them myself and I decided I was
Never coming down. just then a tiny little dot caught my eye it was just about
Too small to see. but I watched it way too long and that dot was pulling me
Down.

I was up above it.
I was up above it.
Now Im down in it
I was up above it.
I was up above it.
Now Im down in it

Down In It — Nine Inch Nail