Category Archives: Price Rollback

Dewey, Cheatem & Howe

The love of money is the root of all evil.

The Bible — Timothy 6:10

Money, its a crime.

Share it fairly but dont take a slice of my pie.

Money, so they say

Is the root of all evil today.

But if you ask for a raise its no surprise that theyre

Giving none away.

Money — Pink Floyd

Link to Music Video

Have you heard about the new realty in town offering to help sellers move property in a declining market? Their name is Dewey, Cheatem & Howe.

OK, it is an old lawyer’s joke, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this WTF price on Dewey Street in Irvine…

27 Dewey Front 27 Dewey Kitchen

Asking Price: $940,000IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $527,000

Purchase Date: 7/11/2003

Address: 27 Dewey, Irvine, CA 92620

Beds: 4

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 2,500

$/Sq. Ft.: $376

Lot Size: 5,500 sq. ft.

Year Built: 1978

Stories: 2

Type: Single Family ResidenceWTF

View: Pool

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Northwood

MLS#: P586668

Status: Active

On Redfin: 41 days

From Redfin, “Completely remodeled home from inside & out. Enjoy approx. $200k in u pgrades including: travertine floors, custom paint, crown molding, granite, newer windows, & a resort style custom swimming pool. Main floor master bed w/ blt in vanity & private bath. Gourmet kitchen with granite, pantry, & upgraded fixtures & appliances. Open formal living room w/ vaulted ceilings & fireplace. Lg. secondary bedrooms. Gorgeous resort style swimming pool w/ waterfall. Attend award winning Northwood Sch’s.”

Another listing looking to justify an asking price by telling us how much they spent on upgrades. Who cares? Did you add any value with all that money you spent? Maybe the buyer will need to spend $200,000 to fix the mess. Who knows?

Oh, he added a gourmet kitchen. That explains it.

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Kool Aid Man

So despite the rollbacks happening all around him, this seller believes his property has doubled in value since 2003. This is ridiculous. According to the property records, there is no mortgage on the property, so this seller can cling to his WTF asking price for all eternity — which is how long it might take for valuations to justify this price.

For drinking way too much kool aid, bestow our WTF award on 27 Dewey!

Money, get away.

Get a good job with good pay and youre okay.

Money, its a gas.

Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.

New car, caviar, four star daydream,

Think Ill buy me a football team.

Money, get back.

Im all right jack keep your hands off of my stack.

Money, its a hit.

Dont give me that do goody good bullshit.

Im in the high-fidelity first class traveling set

And I think I need a lear jet.

Money — Pink Floyd

Holy 2003!

Every limbo boy and girl

All around the limbo world

Gonna do the limbo rock

All around the limbo clock

Jack be limbo, Jack be quick

Jack go unda limbo stick

All around the limbo clock

Hey, let’s do the limbo rock

Limbo lower now

Limbo lower now

How low can you go

The Limbo — Chubby Checker

These rollbacks are coming up so frequently these days, I am forced to wonder, “How low can you go?”

144 Saint James

Asking Price: $651,900IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $735,000

Purchase Date: 5/4/2006

Address: 144 Saint James, Irvine, CA 92606

Beds: 3

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,931

$/Sq. Ft.: $338

Lot Size: –Rollback

Year Built: 2002

Stories: 2

Type: Condominium

View: Park or Green Belt

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Walnut

MLS#: S498460

Status: Active

On Redfin: 15 days

From Redfin, “Spacious floor-plan in beautiful gated community of Parklane! Great curb appeal! A must see!!! Den or office off master suite! Corian counters! Center island! Clean white cabinets! Custom tile flooring! plantation shutters! enclosed patio! Best price detached home in the area for the square footage! Light & bright! sides greenbelt! Go direct!”

Three exclamation points: check.

No periods: check.

“Light and Bright:” check.

This realtor probably has an advanced degree in realtorese.

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At first glance this seems like just another rollback, but wait… Check out the sales history:

Sales History

Date Price

05/04/2006 $735,000

07/11/2003 $667,000

This is a 2003 rollback!

I imagine this seller thought they were getting a good deal when they bought at the peak and only paid $68,000 more than the previous buyer. Oops! It doesn’t seem to have worked out that way. If they get their asking price, minus a 6% commission, they stand to lose $122,214 in just over one year of ownership. I guess buying on St. James street did not bless this transaction.

Rollback

These rollbacks have clearly wiped out all of the market gains through 2005 and 2006, and we are working our way through 2004. Now we even have the occasional 2003 debacle.

To be honest with all of you, I did not expect to see the market deteriorate this quickly. I was expecting real signs of distress in the fall and winter (I still think it will get much worse.) Real estate markets typically do not turn this fast. Of course, this is no typical real estate market.

The market decline of the early 90’s was a slow deflation. There was no single period of intense panic selling; however, it really is different this time. These prices were bid up so high, with so little regard to fundamental valuations, and was played by so many people with so little to lose (100% financing) that it certainly appears as if it is going to behave like a traditional commodities market.

Irvine Housing Market Prediction

If you think it is bad now, wait until the crushing weight of inventory and the massive dump of REOs hits the markets this fall and winter. I predict we will see a full scale panic like the residential real estate market has never seen before. Watch for the psychological shift I described in Houses Should Not Be a Commodity. When we move from denial into fear, the bulls will go strangely silent. When we move from fear into panic and capitulation, we will see a massive inventory spike, and they will all be rollbacks. Watch for it. It is coming soon.

I hope you have enjoyed your week at the Irvine Housing Blog. I have enjoyed bringing it too you. See you next week as we continue chronicling ‘the seventh circle of real estate hell.’ Have a great weekend.

Markets and the Sea

. . . however baby man may brag of his science and skill, and however much, in a flattering future, that science and skill may augment; yet for ever and for ever, to the crack of doom, the sea will insult and murder him, and pulverize the stateliest, stiffest frigate he can make; nevertheless, by the continual repetition of these very impressions, man has lost that sense of the full awfulness of the sea which aboriginally belongs to it.

. . . these are the times of dreamy quietude, when beholding the tranquil beauty and brilliancy of the ocean’s skin, one forgets the tiger heart that pants beneath it; and would not willingly remember, that this velvet paw but conceals a remorseless fang.

Moby Dick — Herman Melville

Wall Street financiers came up with a number of financial instruments designed to minimize their risks (Collateralized Debt Obligations, Credit Default Swaps, etc.) In doing so, they created a false sense of security and moral hazard which caused huge sums of money to flow into residential home mortgages. Like the first quote from Moby Dick above, the market participants “lost that sense of the full awfulness” the markets can inflict upon them.

For all our wisdom and collective experience, none of us knows what the markets will do next. Like an ocean current or a raging river, a financial market charts its own course. It is fickle and feckless and flows without regard to our hopes and dreams. To forget this fact is to book your financial passage on the Edmund Fitzgerald (Link to great music video).

The ebbs and flows of financial markets are meaningful to us, but in reality they are just movements in price; nothing more. Price rallies make homeowners blissful and renters bitter, while price declines make homeowners gloomy and renters gleeful.

Sub Prime Move Up Chain

These feelings and emotions are independent of movements in price. The market just moves, that is all it does. It is benign, yet dangerous; it is indifferent, yet demonstrative; the market is a paradox which me must simply accept.

It has been argued — convincingly in my opinion — that the health of a real estate market starts at the bottom of the food chain. Like the plankton in the sea, the entry-level buyer is the base of the real estate food chain. If the organisms that make up the base of the food chain are not healthy, the entire ecosystem is in peril. So it is with our real estate market.

In several posts I have talked about the complete lack of sales at the low end of the market. It occurred to me I haven’t profiled enough of these properties to show just how bad things are. Today I am going to profile three properties in “The Lakes:” a severe rollback, a bank REO and a peak buyer hoping to limit their losses. Enjoy…

79 Lakepines Front 171 Streamwood Inside

Asking Price: $270,000IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $340,000

Purchase Date: 12/15/2005

Address: 79 Lakepines, Irvine, CA 92620

1st Loan $255,000

2nd Mtg. $51,000

Downpayment $30,000

Beds: 1

Baths: 1

Sq. Ft.: 934

$/Sq. Ft.: $289

Lot Size: 763 sq. ft.

Year Built: 1977

Stories: 2

Type: Condominium

View: Water

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Northwood

MLS#: S488313

Status: Active

On Redfin: 86 days

From Redfin, “Charming, Spacious two story Loft Bedroom home in resort like Lakes community. Best location. Tranquil Back patio faces serene stream and water features. Cozy fireplace, Catherdral scraped ceilings, Skylight, Garden Window, new lighting fixtures, designer paint, Newer appliances including stove, microwave, dishwasher. Walk in Closet in bedroom. Turnkey.”

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Look at this depth of this rollback: 20% off; even at this asking price it is still on the market after 77 days. Further price reductions will be necessary before this sells. If they manage to get the asking price, and assuming a 6% commission, this seller and their bank stand to lose $86,200 — that is 25% off a 2005 price!

The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead

When the skies of November turn gloomy.

The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald — Gordon Lightfoot.

Real estate always goes up, or so our next seller hopes…

171 Streamwood Front 79 Lakepines Kitchen

Asking Price: $241,500IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $191,826

Purchase Date: 6/11/2007

Address: 171 Streamwood, Irvine, CA 92620

1st Loan $178,500

2nd Mtg. $31,500

Downpayment $0

Beds: 0

Baths: 1

Sq. Ft.: 415

$/Sq. Ft.: $582Knife Catcher Award

Lot Size: –

Year Built: 1977

Stories: 1

Type: Condominium

View: Trees/Woods, Water

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Northwood

MLS#: S497917

Status: Active

On Redfin: 17 days

From Redfin, “Enjoy the sounds of meandering streams from one of the least expensive condos in all of Irvine. This studio unit is on the ground floor within a great community close to shopping, dining and transportation. Numerous association amenities including 2 clubhouses, 2 pools, 2 spas, and tennis courts make this a great place to live!!!”

The obligatory three exclamation points…

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Look at this sales history:

Sales History

Date Price

06/11/2007 $191,826

03/21/2005 $210,000

04/16/1998 $57,500

This was a 2005 rollback foreclosed on by the Bank of New York in early June. Does anyone want to bet this will sell for less than the June sales price? And look at the 1998 price. If you calculated its rental value — and at 415 SF, it is only useful as a rental — the 1998 price is probably not far from is real worth.

Back to the behavior of lenders and our moral hazard:

By this, he seemed to mean, not only that the most reliable and useful courage was that which arises from the fair estimation of the encountered peril, but that an utterly fearless man is a far more dangerous comrade than a coward.

Moby Dick — Herman Melville

3 Lakepines Front3 Lakepines Inside

Asking Price: $399,999IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $427,000

Purchase Date: 3/2/2006

Address: 3 Lakepines, Irvine, CA 92620

1st Loan $340,800

2nd Mtg. $85,200

Downpayment $1,000

Beds: 2

Baths: 1.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,202

$/Sq. Ft.: $333

Lot Size: –

Year Built: 1977

Stories: 2

Type: Condominium

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Northwood

MLS#: U7003339

Status: Active

On Redfin: 1 day

New Listing (24 hours)

From Redfin, “Very spacious and open floor plan. Combination kitchen/dining/living room great room. Private patio area for a small animal, and or bbq area and relaxing. Vaulted ceilings with sky lights. Association area includes two pools & spas, tennis courts. Lakes and streams running all around complex.”

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Given the whopping $1,000 downpayment, I am not surprised this would be millionaire is walking from this stellar investment. If this property sells for its asking price, the seller bank stands to lose $51,000.94 after a 6% commission.

The Captain wired in he had water coming in

And the good ship and crew was in peril

And later that night when his lights went out of sight

Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald — Gordon Lightfoot.

Reunion Rollback

I was listening to the radio

I heard a song reminded me of long ago

Back then I thought that things were never gonna change

It used to be that I never had to feel the pain

I know that things will never be the same now

I wanna go back

And do it all over again

But I can’t go back I know

I Wanna Go Back — Eddie Money

Link to Music Video

With all the rollbacks we are seeing in the market, do you think some of these homeowners would like to go back and do it all over again — and perhaps make different choices? I imagine they are feeling the pain…

110 Reunion Front 110 Reunion Kitchen

Asking Price: $639,000IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $622,500

Purchase Date: 11/23/2004

Address: 110 Reunion, Irvine, CA 92603

Beds: 3

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,300

$/Sq. Ft.: $492

Lot Size: –

Year Built: 2005

Stories: 2Rollback

Type: Condominium

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Quail Hill

MLS#: S489036

Status: Active

On Redfin: 67 days

From Redfin, “Stylish ultra luxury detached residence in highly sought after Quail H ill development. Nestled in back of CDS – very safe & quiet! Loaded w/ model upgrades, this gorgeous residence will not stay on the market long! Great floorplan enhanced w/ hardwood flooring, recessed lighting + base & crown molding. Gourmet kitchen w/ granite countertops, splash & under cabinet lighting. Upstairs bedrooms & loft. Large master suite w/ walk-in closet & bath. Charming garden patio. Resort quality association.”

Wow! Ultra luxury. Not just ordinary luxury, but ultra luxury… It must be on par with Burj Al Arab.

It won’t stay on the market long — only 67 days so far…

And, of course, another gourmet kitchen…

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This one is not technically a 2004 rollback, yet. The asking price is still above the purchase price, but with 67 days on the market, I highly suspect the final sales price (if there is one) will be under the purchase price. If they can get their asking price, they stand to lose $21,840 after a 6% commission.

86 Reunion Front 86 Reunion Kitchen

Asking Price: $679,900IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $586,500

Purchase Date: 11/1/2004

Address: 86 Reunion, Irvine, CA 92603

Beds: 3

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,300

$/Sq. Ft.: $523

Lot Size: –

Year Built: 2004

Stories: 2

Type: Condominium

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Quail Hill

MLS#: S483874

Status: Active

On Redfin: 10 days

From Redfin, “Quality upgraded home with granite counter Tops, ceiling fans in each room, upgraded carpeting, hardwood floors throughout fist floor with 9 ft ceilings. Wood blinds, natural slate courtyard, recessed lighting, and more. Ample parking, walking distance to pools, schools, and shopping. Bright home in a very quiet surrounding. Lowest priced Sage plan 3 California Pacific Home.”

fist floor?

umm… This isn’t the lowest priced Sage plan 3. The unit profiled above is…

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This property is listed for a wishing price. 110 Reunion is an identical plan offered for $40,000 less. In short, they are at least $60,000 overpriced.

In a strong market, this seller might get their wishing price, but in a declining market, it is a race to the bottom. 110 Reunion is currently in the lead.

2003 Rollback!

** AN IRVINE HOUSING BLOG NEWS FLASH **

A 2003 rollback has been sighted!

We interrupt our regularly scheduled sequence of properties in Quail Hill to bring you this special breaking story. An auction site has listed a property for sale at a price lower than its 2003 purchase price.

Is this a ploy to generate a bidding frenzy? Sure it is.

Will it sell for less than its 2003 purchase price? Who knows.

Is this auction site hoping the Irvine Housing Blog will call attention to their listing? Power To The People. Always glad to be of service…

1400 Terra Bella Front 1404 Terra Bella Inside

Asking Price: $400,000IrvineRenter

Purchase Price: $415,000

Purchase Date: 12/2/2003

Address: 1404 Terra Bella, Irvine, CA 92602

Beds: 2

Baths: 2.5

Sq. Ft.: 1,327

$/Sq. Ft.: $301

Lot Size: –

Year Built: 2001

Stories: 2Rollback

Type: Condominium

View: Mountain

County: Orange

Neighborhood: Northpark

MLS#: S494809

Status: Active

On Redfin: 30 days

From Redfin, “This is a fabulous Tuscan Villa with upgrades galore. This warm and inviting home is bright with extra windows and faces the morning sun. Ceramic tile flooring, Euro White Cabinets, Window Blinds and shutters, Neutral designer carpet with a security system can all be yours! This is a private end unit with no one above or below.”

Link to Auction site The auction is today, so there is still time if you want to buy it… Not.

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The property records from my data source shows a first mortgage for $331,840 and no second. There must be more to this story for it to be going at auction.

If this sells for asking price, and the auctioneer takes a 10% commission (that is their fee), the seller will recognize a loss of $55,000 on a 2003 purchase.

What more needs to be said…

How about Jim Cramer’s take on the housing market…

Jim Cramer in October 2006.

Jim Cramer in July 2007.

What a difference nine months makes…

Rollback

So long sad times

Go long bad times

We are rid of you at last

Howdy gay times

Cloudy gray times

You are now a thing of the past

Happy days are here again

The skies above are clear again

So let’s sing a song of cheer again

Happy days are here again

Happy Days are Here Again – Music and Lyrics by J. Yellen and M. Ager

Youtube link Barbra Streisand – Happy Days Are Here Again

A special thanks to mk9 for posting this property in our forum.