The Orange County Association of realtors has accused IrvineRenter of “knowingly telling lies about competitors.” They demand I appear in front of their grievance committee for disciplinary action.
Irvine Home Address … 1 SOLANA Irvine, CA 92612
Resale Home Price …… $550,000
Father please forgive me
You know you'll never leave me
Please will you direct me in the right way
Liar liar liar liar
Liar that's what they keep calling me
Liar liar liar
Queen – Liar
The Orange County Association of realtors is after me. They claim I am a liar. Today, I will present the facts and let you decide.
Realtors go after blogger who says they lie
June 6th, 2011, 12:00 pm — Marilyn Kalfus, real estate reporter
The Orange County Association of Realtors has filed a grievance against an Irvine real estate broker who writes a blog that takes critical looks at the housing crash, homebuyers and real estate agents.
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Larry Roberts, who writes the IrvineHousingBlog.com, freely admits going “over the top” in his posts, which are particularly harsh on homeowners who default on loans. He frequently shows MLS photos of properties that have gone into foreclosure. He also has accused real estate agents, in general, of being dishonest.
I sometimes do go over the top. It's part of my sense of humor, and It's one of the reasons I don't single out individuals. Sometimes it takes going over the top to draw attention to important issues and get people to think.
The grievance says Roberts and two other people have violated a code of ethics rule stating that “Realtors must not knowingly lie about competitors” as well as a general set of regulations governing how MLS information is used on the internet.
Roberts says OCAR is trying to impinge on his freedom of speech, and that the organization has no standing to keep him from posting in his blog.
This is clearly an attempt to silence my free speech because OCAR does not like the content of my speech. Why else would they bring this complaint? The complaint filed by OCAR is “anonymous” — nobody at OCAR has the guts to stand up and publicly accuse me. To make it worse, OCAR has not even notified me of what specific actions I took which violate their rules.
They want to drag me before a biased kangaroo court made up of its own members and keep the hearing secret and non-public. Anonymous accusations, secret trials, and refusal to substantiate charges sound more like the political trials of the Soviet Union, Cuba or North Korea than American notions of due process. Joseph Stalin from the old Soviet Union would be proud of OCAR and their methods.
He has a broker’s license, he says, but he doesn’t run a brokerage or sell real estate, and he is not a Realtor or a member of OCAR.
The complaint, which Roberts furnished to the Register, was accompanied by a printed version of a post he ran saying that real estate agents lie.
“Realtors take advantage of their status as trusted experts to manipulate buyers, and they feel no responsibility when their statements are exposed as lies,” the statement said.
Roberts says he believes he wrote it as an introduction to an article in the blog by a University of Arizona law professor. The piece, entitled, “Trust, expert advice and Realtor responsibility,” was later removed from the blog at the professor’s request because it was going to be published elsewhere, Roberts said.
In an interview, Roberts elaborated, saying, ” …Many Realtors make representations about investment value and appreciation without regard to whether or not such statements are true. Most make these statements in ignorance, which technically isn’t lying, but some make these statements knowing better, which is lying.”
Roberts added that while he has been hard on real estate agents in general, ”I have never singled any Realtor out and called them a liar.”
I don't focus on individuals. The behavior is the problem, not the person doing it. People make mistakes. I have. I don't seek to shame people, I try to point out what people do whether it be borrowers or realtors so people can see the wisdom or the foolishness in the behavior for themselves. 
OCAR’s Rena Budesky, who signed the grievance, declined to answer questions from a reporter seeking specifics about what Roberts did to prompt the action. “Everything that relates to grievance complaints, it’s all confidential,” she said.
OCAR president Jean Tietgen did not respond to a reporter’s call.
They want to call me in front of their Kangaroo court of realtors, keep me in the dark regarding their trumped up charges, find me guilty, then keep everything quiet.
Roberts’ attorney Scott H. Sims sent a letter to Budesky and OCAR demanding they withdraw their complaint, which he called “frivolous .. and a clear effort to interfere with Roberts’ right of free speech.”
“Even if Roberts had engaged in wrongdoing, which he has not, any disciplinary action taken by an OCAR grievance panel would carry no legal force and effect and OCAR would be exposing itself to liability for any and all damages to Roberts,” the letter read in part.
“If OCAR or any of its members disagree with Roberts’ opinions they are free to dispute them in ‘the marketplace of ideas,’ ” the letter says, “and leave it up to the public to decide who is right .. We recognize that engaging in a civil debate about the health of the housing market may not blindly pad the pockets of OCAR’s members who are paid on commission — and thus have no incentive to tell their clients to do anything except to ‘buy,buy,’buy” — but such is the risk of doing business in a free market.”
Hallelujah! The IHB has always been an open forum. People are free to come here and put forward their ideas and opinions of the housing market. I have always encouraged differing points of view as evidenced in the daily astute observations. Ideas with merit are scrutinized, and the collective wisdom of the group separates the good ideas from nonsense. That's how a healthy debate should work.
PDF of full attorney response letter
What does OCAR think about free speech? .png)
The allegations brought against me include (1) knowingly lying about competitors, and (2) violating MLS rules. Yet OCAR won’t tell me how I did either. Isn't it obvious these are silly attempts to shut down one of the few truthful and accurate sources of real estate information and analysis in Orange County? They are pissed about my public comments, and they hope they can find some MLS violation to shut me down. In their complaint, they provided absolutely no evidence of any MLS violations. If there are any legitimate violations, they should tell me and give me the chance to correct them. Unfortunately, OCAR is more interested in keeping me in the dark, holding some secret proceeding and then trying to shut down the IHB and infringe on free speech.
Do any of you believe the information presented on the IHB is inaccurate or misleading in any way? Does OCAR need to sue the IHB to ensure the data presented is accurate and useful? Who do you believe is more concerned with accuracy, the IHB or OCAR?
This is really embarrassing for OCAR. I criticize the national association for knowingly providing inaccurate information to buyers — which they did — and the local association accuses me of lying and providing bad information. Unbelievable! I cringe when I think of the thought process that was behind this complaint. OCAR should be asking itself what the hell is going on. They want to call a non-member in front of their secret panel, and then make up bogus charges designed solely to infringe on someone's freedom of speech. Brilliant!
Isn't this America? Perhaps OCAR might be more comfortable in Communist China? Oops, I better be careful. I wouldn't want to get called in front of a disciplinary board in China for my statements….
What is wrong with the association of realtors?
My issues with the association of realtors is well documented:
5-23-2011 — More self-serving bullshit from the National Association of realtors
5-13-2011 — NAr: sales decline in 78% of markets and prices fall 4.5% nationwide
3-26-2011 — The future of IHB news and real estate analysis.
3-9-2011 — The OC Register Says California had no real estate bubble.
2-24-2011 — National Association of realtors caught lying about home sales
4-9-2010 — The National Association of realtors Latest Scare Tactic: Rising Interest Rates
1-26-2010 — Urgency Versus Reality: realtors Win, Buyers Lose
I don't like how this trade association operates. As I stated in More self-serving bullshit from the National Association of realtors,
Since Barry Ritholtz post on How to Read National Association of Realtors News Release, I have been contemplating the utter disrespect the NAr demonstrates for its customers through its constant manipulation of data for the sole purpose of convincing buyers to act even if it isn't in the buyers best interest to do so. It angers me that such a corrupt and self-serving philosophy of business is at the core of the NAr because their actions harm so many people.
How many buyers from the bubble rally were soothed by the comforting advice of their expert realtors who were telling them house prices only go up? How many of those buyers relied on their realtor's statements and now find themselves financially destroyed by the purchase they made? Are realtors responsible for the financial ruin of those buyers who believed their representations of financial performance?
On 3-23-2011, I wrote the post As trusted experts realtors are responsible for their bad financial advice. That post was a reprint of Dr. Brent White's paper, Trust, Expert Advice, and Realtor Responsibility. From the abstract:
Real estate agents benefit from the trust associated with portraying themselves as real estate experts, yet are generally not legally responsible for the advice that they give. This lack of legal responsibility is at odds with psychological propensity of individuals to trust perceived experts. It also creates a genuine moral hazard, fueled the housing market bubble and contributed to the suffering of homeowners whose real estate agents encouraged them to buy as the market began to burst. This article proposes that real estate agents be required to accept legal responsibility for their advice or be required to represent themselves as mere salespersons.
My post is no longer on the IHB. As mentioned in the OC Register’s article, I emailed Dr. White when my post came out, and he requested I take it down because the paper was about to be published in a major journal, and he didn't want problems with his publisher. Since I was trying to help Dr. White by calling attention to his paper and not cause him grief, I took the post down per his request.
The post containing Dr. White's paper is apparently part of the the OCAR complaint against me — A post that was 90% someone else's writing. I was drawn to Dr. White's paper because he was making the same argument I was in The Great Housing Bubble and in many posts on the IHB: realtors should stop making representations of financial returns in real estate as an inducement to buy.
In The Great Housing Bubble, I wrote this:
Since one of the goals of regulatory reform is to inhibit the behavior of irrational exuberance, the sales tactics of the National Association of Realtors should be examined and potentially come under the same restrictions as securities brokers through the Securities and Exchange Commission. After the stock market crash which helped precipitate the Great Depression, Congress created the Securities and Exchange Commission to regulate the sales activities of securities brokers. There are strict regulations in place governing the representations made concerning the future performance of investment opportunities. These protections were put in place to protect the general public from the false promises made by stockbrokers in the 1920s which many naïve investors believed. The same analogy holds true for Realtors. The National Association of Realtors has launched numerous advertising campaigns suggesting erroneously that residential real estate is a great investment and appreciation will make home buyers wealthy.
Some people mistakenly believe that realtors are regulated by the SEC and need a securities license to make representations about returns in real estate. Not true. They say whatever they want, and if a buyer relies on that information, too bad for the buyer.
In the complaint against me, the post with Dr. White's paper is singled out as evidence that I “knowingly lied about my competitors.” In an amazing example of cognitive dissonance, OCAr is accusing me of lying.
I believe this is an attempt to silence my voice and undermine my business. What other explanation could there be?
OCAR should leave me alone
Is spending OCAR resources on this complaint in the best interest of the organization? If OCAR is trying to vault me to national attention through its frivolous lawsuit, they just might succeed if they don't let their complaint drop. Dr. Brent White, the author of the paper that was the subject of the post they objected to, was on 60 minutes for his controversial stance on strategic default. My attorneys represented Tyler Hamilton on his recent 60 Minutes appearance. Producers at 60 Minutes are contacts of both Dr. White and my attorneys. Is attacking my freedom of speech on the issue of realtor responsibility newsworthy enough for 60 minutes? If they keep pushing, we might find out.
I am not looking for a fight. Personally, I would rather focus my energy on developing my own business and holding to a higher standard. If the people behind the complaint against me were to put a fraction of that energy toward raising their own standards and creating their own success, they might serve their clients better and make more sales.
Shevy is a personal friend and we speak regularly about the market and ways that real estate services can be improved. Shevy is a member of OCAr, NAr, and participates in LGrS through OCAr. He participates in these groups to bring perspective and hopes of influencing positive change for consumers through OCAr and NAr policy improvement. He was very surprised and disappointed that OCAr chose this path. Open forums like the IHB should be embraced by groups like OCAr and NAr as an opportunity to gain insight and address important real issues.
What is a lie?
First, let's dispense with their allegations. In order to tell a lie, someone must know the facts of a situation and knowingly state something contrary to fact. Let's look at my statements and contrast that with statements of some realtors and representatives of their association.
I have stated uncomfortable truths (see links above), but I have not lied about anything. Like Dr. White and Barry Ritholtz, I happen to believe that realtors do at times make misleading statements about house price appreciation to induce a buyer to act. My statement is my reality. If I am mistaken, and if no realtor has ever made an intentionally misleading statement as to future value of a house, then I am mistaken, not a liar. That being said, I don't think I am mistaken:
In the video above featuring NAr representative Tom Adkins above from 2008, he is embarrassingly wrong, and as Peter Schiff points out, he was just as wrong the year before. But why does he keep saying it? Does he know better and chooses to lie? Is he ignorant to the truth and merely passing on his foolish opinion?
Not every instance of a realtor making representations of financial rewards is intentionally misleading. Sometimes they are merely delusional and genuinely believe what they are saying. The post The OC Register Says California had no real estate bubble documents that phenomenon rather clearly.
As I pointed out in Urgency Versus Reality: realtors Win, Buyers Lose,
… it was fascinating to watch the realtor mind at work. The presentation included many “reasons to buy” realtors could use in their own manipulations consultations with customers. There was little or no regard for the veracity of the claims, it only mattered that realtors have something, anything to create urgency in buyers. Many realtors see their job as presenting buyers with reasons to buy, any reason, and hope the buyer is gullible enough to believe them.
The lack of concern for the truth is the defining characteristic of bullshit. When the bullshit is being offered to obtain a sales commission, the bullshit is self serving. How would you characterize the ad below from the peak of the housing bubble in 2006? It was the worst possible time to buy real estate as an investment. Everyone who did so lost money, yet the NAr claimed real estate was a great investment in 2006.
How would you characterize the behavior of the NAr when they put out advertising like this? They were obviously totally wrong.
- Were they lying?
- Were they delusional?
- Or were they bullshitting showing an indifference to the truth?
And are any of those answers acceptable to you?
So what does the general public think of OCAR's complaint?
The following comments were culled from the many on Marilyn Kalfus's post yesterday:
Who's Dat says: It’s given that Realtors are liars. How many times have we been told “Now is the best time to buy…”?
NueeArdente says: All salesmen do their best to make a sale, yes that means manipulation… and while many might not lie outright.. I can see truth stretched like taffy quite a bit. Then theres a whole pack of them that knowingly sold homes to families that could not afford it while the banks enabled that behavior.
BigLandlord says: I will double the vote that 90% of Realtors LIE all the time! I know, I was a Realtor from 1976 to 2006. LEFT A VERY BITTER TASTE IN MY MOUTH Dealing with so many LIARS. That’s why Escrows are so complicated & take so long!
jules says: It’s true… Realtors do lie. And, it’s not just one life…it’s one lie after another. I have experienced it myself. Why do you think so many people fell for these overpriced homes over the last several years? I realize that realtors weren’t the only factor, but I experienced it myself. The realtor kept lying and lying. Inside I was thinking “Wow…” I can’t believe that anyone would behave this way… Amazing…
jon says: Realtors are getting DESPERATE. They can’t stand the truth. 6% is above God and morality. IHB is nice enough not to call them names, but I will. Realtors = Rodents.
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mojoj says: The statement in question about investment values of homes was exposed in the book Freakomics. In the book, they had a real life example of a real estate agent that urged the home buyer to purchase the home because it was a good investment. Shortly thereafter (with no measurable shift in the market, the buyer sought out the same agent to plan on selling the house to benefit from the “investment”. The agent then told him that it was a down market and that it wasn’t a good time to sell a home. The book also shows that real estate agents don’t have enough of an incentive to maximize the sale price of your home so they settle on what gets them the most amount of money with the least amount of effort without regard to your best interests. We all know this, but it looks like some local buffoons want to sue someone for blogging about it.
ocbear says: During the housing bubble, the National Association of Realtors were huge cheerleaders getting people in over their heads, and are a big cause of the whole mess. The post cards that I received from realtors during those years contained so many lies I couldn’t believe it!
And my favorite:
Surprised says: The only thing I am going to say is that there needs to be a new industry trade group.
I challenge the NAr to raise their standards
There is a simple reason the local realtor association wants to harm the IHB: Their customers prefer the higher standard we set, and we are taking their business. I offer a series of challenges to the association of realtors.
1. Stop presenting inaccurate data to suit your purposes.
Back in 2007, realtors changed their methods of data collection to get the data they wanted to present rather than be accurate to what really occurred in the market. I documented this in National Association of realtors caught lying about home sales. This behavior needs to stop.
2. Stop manipulating accurate data with spin and bullshit to influence buyers.
In the post, The future of IHB news and real estate analysis, I called out the NAr for their intentional manipulation of data to influence buyer psychology. I challenge them to stop.
Zillow's Stan Humphries among other real estate economists, has demonstrated a willingness to tell a dark truth about home prices or sales regardless of how this will impact Zillow's business in the short term. Telling potential customers the truth generates more sales in the long term than ceaseless bullshit.
3. Stop encouraging agents to create a false sense of urgency.
In Urgency Versus Reality: realtors Win, Buyers Lose, I documented what everyone already knows — realtors rely on creating false urgency to sell homes. Shouldn't people be given accurate information and be encouraged to make their own decisions? I think so. And so do the customers we have served. realtors need to stop creating false urgency in buyers.
4. Place the needs of your clients above your own.
Since I announced the IHB would help people buy and sell real estate, I have remained truthful to my view of the housing market. The IHB has consistently advised caution, while realtors were consistently calling the bottom and telling people they have nothing to fear. Many people have chosen to rent because of our advice, and since prices are still falling five years after the peak, our advice has served clients well. The IHB could have generated more sales if we had “gone realtor” and put our own financial interests above our clients. We chose not to do that because we believe it is the right thing to do. I challenge realtors to do the same.
5. Admit the sales techniques encouraged by the organization hurt millions of customers — and apologize.
Some lenders feel bad about their role in the housing bubble and the millions of resulting foreclosures, but realtors don't feel responsible. realtors encouraged millions of people to buy houses they couldn't afford, and now those buyers are financially ruined. I haven't read a remorseful confession from any realtors acknowledging their role in the bubble. Is that too much to ask?
realtors can serve their clients better 
Most realtors who read this — and they all will with the attention this issue is getting — will dismiss my challenges as the ravings of a hater. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would rather see everyone who buys real estate be treated the way IHB treats its clients. I rant and rave to foster change, not hate.
Many good agents don't like how their trade association works, but they feel powerless against the machine. They aren't powerless. Many secretly agree with me, but feel compelled by the pressure of the group to say nothing. Now is the time to stand up and be heard. Good agents need to raise their standards and demand the same of everyone else in the organization. Clients everywhere would benefit from that.
Better and more useful data
The property profile below is typical of an IHB post. It has two links to MLS sources for more information than is presented here. From the MLS data, which gets much of its information from the County Assessor's office and other public records, I break down the cost of ownership and acquisition. It's a shortened version of an IHB Fundamental Value Report. The data presented is accurate, and I provide more information that is useful to borrowers than other sites.
Learning what not to do
In addition to the basic property data, I provide purchase and loan information on the property from public records. Prior to the housing bubble, this information was dry data, but with the mass financial insanity that became common during the bubble, the public records now contain interesting stories of foolish borrowing that cost people their homes.
When I first began writing about this behavior, people didn't believe me, and for the first several posts, most dismissed it as cherry picking. Over the last four years I have profiled hundreds of HELOC abuse cases to show how widespread this activity really was. And for the record, I don't print the owner's names. It is public record, but I want to expose the behavior, not the person caught up in it.
Understanding HELOC abuse is important. It's a behavior that cost thousands of people their homes, hundreds here in Irvine alone. The desire for mortgage equity withdrawal was the primary motivator for buyers during the bubble. Borrowers who don't understand this will repeat the mistakes of the past, and they may end up a foreclosure statistic themselves.
How to make $140,000 and still be a short sale
The owners of today's featured property paid $377,000 on 12/14/2001. The first mortgage information is missing, but they needed a $75,000 second to close the deal. Their down payment probably wasn't very large. It doesn't really matter because on 4/16/2003 they obtained a new first mortgage for $436,500 which refinanced their previous mortgages, got back their down payment, plus gave them over $50,000 for spending money.
Over then next four years they took out various loans and refinances, and ended up with $674,260 in property debt. Hence, we have a short sale. The total mortgage equity withdrawal was around $300,000. Not bad for doing nothing.
Irvine House Address … 1 SOLANA Irvine, CA 92612 
Resale House Price …… $550,000
House Purchase Price … $377,000
House Purchase Date …. 12/14/2001
Net Gain (Loss) ………. $140,000
Percent Change ………. 37.1%
Annual Appreciation … 4.0%
Cost of House Ownership
————————————————-
$550,000 ………. Asking Price
$110,000 ………. 20% Down Conventional
4.54% …………… Mortgage Interest Rate
$440,000 ………. 30-Year Mortgage
$95,995 ………. Income Requirement
$2,240 ………. Monthly Mortgage Payment
$477 ………. Property Tax (@1.04%)
$0 ………. Special Taxes and Levies (Mello Roos)
$115 ………. Homeowners Insurance (@ 0.25%)
$0 ………. Private Mortgage Insurance
$384 ………. Homeowners Association Fees
============================================
$3,215 ………. Monthly Cash Outlays
-$375 ………. Tax Savings (% of Interest and Property Tax)
-$575 ………. Equity Hidden in Payment (Amortization)
$186 ………. Lost Income to Down Payment (net of taxes)
$89 ………. Maintenance and Replacement Reserves
============================================
$2,540 ………. Monthly Cost of Ownership
Cash Acquisition Demands
——————————————————————————
$5,500 ………. Furnishing and Move In @1%
$5,500 ………. Closing Costs @1%
$4,400 ………… Interest Points @1% of Loan
$110,000 ………. Down Payment
============================================
$125,400 ………. Total Cash Costs
$38,900 ………… Emergency Cash Reserves
============================================
$164,300 ………. Total Savings Needed
Property Details for 1 SOLANA Irvine, CA 92612
——————————————————————————
Beds: 3
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 2000
$275/SF
Property Type: Residential, Condominium
Style: Two Level
View: Park/Green Belt
Year Built: 1975
Community: Rancho San Joaquin
County: Orange
MLS#: S657444
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
——————————————————————————
A superb opportunity to acquire this stunning and spacious Two-Story Home with Just One Common Wall for a great price. It truly feels like a Single Family Residence. This home boasts an elegant front yard leading to the tastefully upgraded interior. The gourmet kitchen with granite countertops and matching appliances is a delight for every Chef. The crownmolding complements the high quality tile floors and the newer carpet throughout this bright and spacious home.
A special thanks to Barry Ritholtz of the Big Picture: Orange County Realtors vs IrvineHousingBlog.com.
Wait a minute, Realtors have a “Code of Ethics”? After reading that I had to wipe coffee spray off my monitor. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in weeks.
The first rule of “r”ealtor club is:
http://www.crackthecode.us/images/RealtorsDontLie.jpg
The second rule of “r”ealtor club is…
A little secret: an organization that has a Code of Ethics has an ethics problem. No ethics problem, no need for a Code of Ethics.
Exactly. What kind of lowlife organization actually has to codify “Do not knowingly lie” as though there are organizations where “knowingly” lying is OK. If you associate with groups who have to explicitly tell you not to “knowingly” lie then odds are pretty good that you are surrounded by a bunch of jackals. Of course the whole reason that they say “Do not knowingly lie” is so that they can have it both ways. If you have to lie about something, just make sure that it looks like you did so “unknowingly“.
Did you tell the buyers that the relisted house just came on the market when in fact it has been up for sale for a year? Whoops! One of those accidental “unknowingly” little lies.
Organizations that knowingly lie:
CIA
DIA
FDA
EPA
SEC
TREASURY
CONGRESS
SENATE
DOD
NSA
NRO
etc, etc!
:coolsmirk:
Wow, an organization that lies and tries to protect its lies by attacking the messenger. Imagine that. Maybe they should move their headquarters to DC. And hire soon to be ex-Rep. Anthony Weiner as their spokesperson.
There are positive sides to all this. First, they’re so incompetent, they’ll probably end up harming only themselves. Second, you still do have some rights – this isn’t a military tribunal in some island prison where there can be only one verdict.
So I’m sure you’ll be fine. Good luck!
Gary Watts didn’t get called before a court of ethics, even though he clearly broke the same rule:
http://www.socalbubble.com/2006/08/gary-watts-and-incredible-logic.html
It’s not about truth, to them. It’s about prices going up. If people just believe they’ll go up, maybe they will. They’ve tried everything else, why not that?
Chuck
Larry – just wanted to show my support for you from down here in San Diego. I share your disdain & distrust for many realtors, and have multiple anecdotal examples from which my opinions arose. Keep up the good fight.
Tom R.
San Diego
Thank you, Tom. I appreciate your support and all those who have commented below and contacted me.
My email inbox is overflowing at the moment, but I will respond to everyone in time.
Thank you,
Larry
IrvineRenter, the shining beacon of….
http://www.crackthecode.us/images/IrvineRoaches.jpg
I’ve seen realtors listing flipped homes with freshly laid Pergranitsteel® as “Standard Sale!” or “Equity Seller” in the MLS. To suggest these realtors are being honest with the buying public with mislabled listings like these is a lie unto itself.
My. 02c
Soylent Green Is People
The “r”ealtor code of ethics:
http://www.crackthecode.us/images/RealtorReinforcers.jpg
P.S. – As an OCAR member I plan to let them know directly about how displeased many of us are to see our dues being wasted so recklessly.
If realtors can’t stand the heat, they need to get out of the Gourmet Kitchen with Stunning Peek-a-boo Views.
My. 02c
Soylent Green Is People.
Best of luck.
While you are at it, tell them to stop raising dues to feed the BS machine:
“The National Association of Realtors board of directors has approved a $40-a-year dues increase to boost political activities, despite polls showing members overwhelmingly opposed it, and warnings from local association executives that a dues increase would accelerate membership declines.”
you guys should probably stop paying ur dues…that’ll learn em.
The problem is then you lose your SupraKey and can not show properties. If not for that, I would have quit the NAR. I hate being a member.
You don’t have to be a member of NAR to be a member of the MLS and have SupraKey access. Any licensed real estate agent is entitled to that access.
That is such crap! $40/year increase to “boost political activities”?!? There’s already too much politics in the RE market.
Are you pulling our leg? Is this a belated April Fool’s post? This is so absurd it would make Samuel Beckett blush.
I hope you come out with guns blazing suing OCAR for slander and defamation of character, loss of spousal affection and marital relations etc. You probably won’t win since calling someone a liar is an ad hominem attack that is considered free speech (chime in here Laura L if I’m wrong) but it would make for great theater to watch these idjits go into full retreat mode. Oh the fun we’d have! Alas, the lawyer fees probably make this a virtual impossibility. Maybe if we all chip in……
Hang in there Larry. The truth is on your side.
OCAR has been very evil, bad, and naughty for shining their “buy now” beacon and they need to be spanked!
Fuc* You Orange County Association of “R”ealtors!
My husband and I support you. I can’t tell you the number of calls we received from realtors when we listed our house FSBO in 2007. They all told us it would never sell without their “marketing” efforts… Well, it did and for a very good price. Once we were in escrow in early 2008, the very same realtors called to tell us that “it was a great time for us to buy another house.”. We rented. Each year, the realtors would follow up and see if we were ready to buy, because after all “it was a great time to buy.”. They never had a good answer when we asked isn’t that what you said last year. We hope to buy next year and we would be using at Redfin agent if it wasn’t for Shevy. BTW, the only reason we were smart enough to sell when we did was thanks to this blog. Our former house has gone down over 25% since we sold. Thanks, IHB.
Dunning Kruger Effect
It’s when incompetent idiots think they are superior because they are too ignorant to see own their deficiencies.
Another consequence is they are unable to judge someone has superior skill.
I’ve been reading posts by so many idiot realtors on so many forums that I’ve determined the realtors association is a breeding ground for Dunning-Kruger devotees. Something about the NAr/CAr/OCAr attract those afflicted by this disease thinking they are right and superior when in fact they are the exact opposite.
At times you’ve give way over the top speculating on personal situations of specific MLS listings. That wasn’t illegal but probably not smart from a legal point of view. Better to stay on the straight and narrow and avoid legal expenses.
It doesn’t seem like they can do anything to you unless they take it outside of kangaroo court. They will take out shevy though, set an example, take out the Realtor side of the business and maybe cost you some additional money down the road.
This post probably wasn’t very smart to help your cause, but good for you for not giving a shit. I respect that you don’t care this post may cost you more money than it’s worth. Since it’s worth nothing, it doesn’t take much. Discussing realtors importance in anything seems like a waste of time in general.
Figures your the first to post something other than supportive comments.
IR,
You SHOULD expose them and respond publicly, as you have.
You post OPINION (supported by lots of FACTS, DATA, and astute ANALYSIS). You never single-out homeowner’s by name – even though it’s PUBLIC RECORD).
They, on the other hand, run a secret hearing without presenting you the basis for the charges, nor the right to even know your acuser. Disgusting manipulation.
Fight them and expose them. Keep up the good and important work!
PS… Planet, might you be the anonymous accuser?
Just wondering…
Break out the pitch forks and Molotov cocktails, that’s how you show support !!!!!
I’m not going to applogize for the banal reality here or in the irvine housing market.
Your opinions are welcome here even if I don’t agree with many of them. We are an open forum.
Like I said I respect you for not giving a shit.
At times your speculation on personal MLS data is stated more factually than it should be. Nobody is perfect, at times this blog has been below your normally high moral and ethical standards. That’s the banal reality sans the pitch forks.
PR – What makes you judge and jury on “moral and ethical standards”?
David, the Internet that’s what. It makes all of us judge and jury, but freedom of speech only goes so far.
I imagine IR expected he could get sued at some point for public commenting on financial speculation specific to individuals. Frivolous or not, it cost money. Wipe out the realtor side of this blog and it does impact his revenue. Don’t get mad at me for stating the facts.
the only thing I’ve found represented as facts or near-facts are hard numbers. that doesn’t mean there isn’t any extrapolation or best-guess scenarios involved, but it’s generally represented as such, from everything I’ve read.
hey, anyone can give their opinion. they’re like rear ends, everyone’s got one.
I’m not mad at you. Are you mind-reading over there?
I find it interesting that you have no comment on the ethical and morals of OCAR, but in regard to IHB you are more than willing to share.
Please, put on your black robe again and deliver your findings on the morals and ethics of OCAR and NAR.
Yes anyone can have their ideas.
They can choose to debate them in “the market place of ideas” or the court of law. One is free, one cost money.
PR –
No comment on the morals or ethics of OCAR or NAR? Why?
David, what’s the point? Why would I waste my time? Do you think negative comments for either insignificant organization is lacking? You need me, Planet Reality, to get up on the podium and belittle either unimportant non critical function further? What basis would I have, I need a pitch fork to get in on that mob action. Have I dealt with douche realtors, of course, who hasn’t. Taking on the entire non important organization would be a foolish waste of time and money.
PR –
Why is commenting on IHB morals and ethics worthy of your time when you find it a wasteful use of time to comment on morals and ethics of NAR and OCAR. Why don’t you just come out of the closet and admit that you are a “r”ealtor?
There are non-douche realtors?
David, I’m everyone who has ever prevented you from achieving your hopes and dreams. Let’s be real, thats who I am to you.
Let me throw you a lay up photo shop. Picture this:
The movie animal house
The OCAR puts Ideale Home Brokers (IRs house selling affiliation) on double secret probation
Its only slander if it not true. Ha ha go to court and show how you duped the bank and got a bunch of HELOC and sent it on a Hummer and some times shares aand vegas trips…..all to prove IHB wrong. Yeah thats going to happen……..
PR –
You won’t do it will you. You are plenty willing to comment on IHB ethics and morals but you just don’t want to talk about OCAR or NAR ethics and morals. You say it is a waste of time to even talk about it. You then proceed to go off-topic and indulge yourself in navel-gazing about how you represent lost dreams and hopes of people.
Why can’t we get a comment from you about the morals and ethics of NAR and OCAR? Why is it such a dilemma for you?
And all I wanted was the double secret probation photoshop for the IHB (ideal home brokers for those keeping track).
As long as your expectations are correct, many realtors are decent people doing an honest days work.
If you go in expecting to get unbiased insightful investment information, you’ll be disappointed.
I bought a house in one flyover city and sold a house in another flyover city, and I’d work with etiher realtor again. Some of the ones I ran into… No, not so much. But my agents, yeah, I liked them.
But I am in flyover country, people are nice here.
Why wont he do it??????
Facts? Has this cost Larry a dime? You are trafficking in opinion and unsubstantiated remarks, as trolls are wont to do.
And, per usual, you make lots of predictions–the latest being that this will cost Larry money–which, when never coming to fruition, somehow never merit a response from you.
Here’s a prediction for you: Larry will continue making posts that are informative, and you will continue to troll. Whereas Larry actually maintains an informative blog, does research, and backs up his points, you stand in the shadows and snipe, never needing to back up your (many) incorrect claims. That’s called trolling, and, speaking of banality, that’s as banal as it gets.
My last post was directed to Planet Banal Real(i)ty, obviously.
Because logical argument and accuracy are not his forte. Logical fallacy and avoidance are.
The definition of trolling is to write some BS so that someone will rise to the bait and respond…
A good troll can get many responses.
“And all I wanted was the double secret probation photoshop for the IHB (ideal home brokers for those keeping track).”
So why don’t you do it yourself if you want it so badly? Or are you **too smart** to even touch anything made from Adobe?
Cartels are supposed to be illegal, right? That is exactly how they are behaving by going after people who have no control over the content of the blog.
first of all, it’s public knowledge, there is no right to privacy when it comes to buying or selling a home, even in a private sale (unless you never choose to record it – rarely a good idea). no names or reputations are ever used or sullied, even though these are also public record. and IR is simply showing the math involved in previous transactions of homes currently listed on the MLS. so people can at the very least have his professional opinion of what they’re getting into, if they are thinking of buying this home, a comparable, or one in the area. or even just to see a snapshot of what the current market (or NAR / CAR / OCAR) are doing. the complaint is bogus and without merit.
Don’t get me wrong I agree with you.
Would you personally start a website that displayed personal information even if it was public? Take it a step further, would you speculate on what happened to the individuals and at times represent it as fact?
Just because you view it as legal doesn’t mean you can’t get sued.
If something is public record, and you put it on the web, and make it easy to find and read, you can get sued for that? I didn’t know. I am no lawyer.
Very dangerous to file a lawsuit like the one you are talking about. There are protections in California that would subject the person who brought the lawsuit to having substantial costs imposed against them.
Like you said, it’s expensive to defend any type of legal action, but it can also be very expensive to bring this type of lawsuit, too. Just ask Gretchen from the Real Housewives, who got hit with a $40,000 tab for filing this type of lawsuit.
This might be part of the reason that the greivance was brought to this forum (which Larry apparently isn’t subject to?) as opposed to a public forum where the greivant could be hit with these type of costs.
Absolutely right. It’s the so-called anti-SLAPP law, and it provides for early dismissal and sanctions against anyone who files a lawsuit challenging the defendant’s exercise of 1st amendment rights on a matter of public concern. I just won a $25,000 attorneys fee award for a client who had been hit with one of these cases.
It’s really a myth that you can “be sued for anything.” There’s nothing stopping a person from filing papers at the court house, but if the case is truly frivolous, all manner of sanctions are available against the plaintiff.
irvinerenter, we’re on your side. it’s clear who’s righteous(you) and who’s the lying scum(ocar).
IR, I regard you as a purveyor of truth, and a dispeller of lies. I’m glad the OCAR action is not smothering your desire to write and spread a unique perspective that traditional realtors would never share.
Used House Salesmen. Your average one cannot spell (check a listing sometimes), does not have a college degree, and basically does not have or does not want to use skills that are useful in structured office / corporate environments.
What was their barrier to entry / hurdle to be able to represent someone with the most important financial decision many will ever make? 3 weeks of classes a 6th grader could pass. They are being exposed for what many of them are – shysters! They deserve what is coming to them – the internet providing the information to make them useless. Remember Fotomat!
“There are three kinds of liars:
Liars, damned liars, and Realtors (TM).”
– GetStucco (http://www.thehousingbubbleblog.com)
Too funny.
Sorry you’re having to deal with this Larry but the 6 percenters never fail to amuse.
Have you contacted the ACLU? I hope you get the national publicity that you deserve out of this.
Larry – you are my HERO! I wish I could present a blog similar to yours for San Diego. I have so much information on properties here all in distressed and HELOC’d just as the properties you blog about. I know that doing the research for your blog takes time. Please keep up the great work. You have a lot of regular followers. We love your blog and appreciate your straight honesty and information. You should be a role model for realtors. I have so much admiration for you and your site. Don’t let them intimidate you. Bring it on OCAR! Viva Free Speech!
Christmas 1999:
Technology stocks are a safe, secure way to build long-term wealth. The NASDAQ over the past 10 years has delivered an average annual return of 25%. Technology is projected to become a bigger and bigger part of people’s everyday lives, and we expect continued returns over the next decade.
Now how would a stock analyst or fund manager be dealt with after writing that statement? The worst part is, they couldn’t tell you to borrow 5X your annual salary to buy tech stocks with non of your own cash in the transaction. They always put a ‘past performance does not guarantee future returns’ caveat on every brochure.
IR, is the republication of MLS photographs for ‘personal’ gain against their rules?
If it was my database, I would impose such a rule. Obviously, trulia, zillow, etc. do it, but they have may be implicitly ignored because they promote sales. Does the MLS have a catch all for use of it’s information and pictures when they need to feel powerful?
They haven’t provided any specifics of their allegations for me to respond to. The rest would be speculation on my part.
It’s a scare tactic to stop you from posting your opinion, facts, reports, financial graphs and much more info that NO one has the guts to do or half the brains.
The amount of work you put into this forum is incomparable!
I still can’t believe a major magazine doesn’t hire you full time to write for them.
We are the lucky ones who know better!!
RE agents need to take some responsibility for the mess they may not have fully created but they surely profited from. Finding an honest one is harder than finding a dishonest one.
from memory of two houses where the agents said there were multiple offers and SOB they are still up for sale an ENTIRE YEAR later–
Happened to me personally MANY TIMES—
RE agents why don’t you repair yourselves instead of attacking someone who is honest!!!
Serial killers, pedophiles, arsonist, zyklon B chemist, neo nazis, and some realtors are all around the same level of trustworthiness.
I would say that neo nazis, while A-holes, are generally more trustworthy than realtors. You pretty much know where they stand.
The comments on the OC Register website are about 98% on your side. OCAR screwed themselves with this asinine move
“He has a broker’s license, he says, but he doesn’t run a brokerage or sell real estate, and he is not a Realtor or a member of OCAR.”
I like how the article uses the “he says” qualifier, as if its hard to prove, one way or the other.
How are you “lying about competitors” if you dont run a brokerage or sell realestate? Who are your competitors?
How can group, which you dont belong to, summon you? No list of specifics, Sounds like to COI at the NCAA. Its not like they can compel you go right? Although I would for $*&$ and giggles…
Just for fun, when was OC groups last hearing? who did they sanction? what was the penalty? What penalty could they legally enforce?
In the article it says two other are also “charged” I could guess the two others, but do you care to share? Will they be going to hearing? Are they compelled to due to their association to the group? Will your absents be held against the other two?
That was my question, too. You appear to have no relation to the group – how can they “bring charges” against you if you have no obligation to them? What, exactly, is their leverage against you? Something smells.
Maybe there is another conspiracy…
Maybe someone on the inside wants to upset the staus quo of the OCAR and filed this complaint so they would run with it, embaress themselves and a shakeup would ensue…
i’d find that hard to believe, but a great idea nonetheless.
They are threatened by and envious of your success. They miss the easy money and ‘prestige’ they enjoyed years ago. Their coping mechanism is to lash out at anyone who can see through their facade. They have no power over you.
Member: Team IR
I don’t see the “damage” here. Where is the injured party? Discussing housing, price, affordability, banking, loan practices is not illegal.
Analysis here on this blog was obtained by public records. From my understand analysis is not illegal.
If OCAR enacts fines and punishment on Irvine Housing Blog, then I hope they get sued on the free of speech suit. Because are they now going quiet on negative discussion on housing? Give me a break on go after the people the comment fraud. >:-(
that commit fraud…I should say
Good for you IR, back when I started reading the blog back in fall of 2006, I never would’ve thought to be learning so much about real estate. I’ve gone from “I want that house!” to “Wait, this house is overpriced compared to rental parity, and the market is due to capitulate.” Keep up the good work, and I’ll keep up my due diligence. 🙂
Kitty
OCAr is probably suing because IR is educating us, thereby reducing their commissions.
astonishing – make sure you post if there is anything us readers that aren’t in the business can do.
If you’re considering a purchase you could use a non-affiliated OCAR Realtor.
If you’re out and about looking at open houses, let the host Realtor know “I don’t support OCAR’s action against local real estate web blogs”.
If you are selling your home ask any of the realtors you’re interviewing for the job “Do you support what OCAR’s doing to silence local real estate blogs? If not, what steps have you taken so far about it?”
Refocusing the heat of many internet posts into real time, real world action, is of course the key.
My .02c
Soylent Green Is People.
Would it be a good idea to have a group of people show up outside the hearing? Let me know.
I used to follow a blog in Miami that gave the real numbers of unsold condos in each building. The builders and association started coming after him and now he just shows pretty pictures of the city.
If you have a blog like the IHB and you’re not pissing off someone then you are doing something wrong and/or don’t have the courage of your convictions.
As long as I’ve been reading this blog, IR has been consistently honest and open, often to his own detriment – personally and professionally. He seeks out the truth and fights for it.
I have a ton of respect for you, IR.
My favorite comment so far.
Why don’t we demand changes like their honesty in the way they do business–
I remember another agent who used his friends to help him with multiple bidding wars—
Those were the days —EH
IR,
Kudos for having the courage to stand up and speak out against corrupt realtors and exposing their propaganda.
The public is ready to hear the truth.
By bringing it out in the open you broke their conditioning.
Now they’re trying to keep you quiet by clamping down.
Keep fighting!
100% true – the (un)professional RE modus operandi IR has shone a light on over the years resonates with so many of us. OCAR has begun to realize just how unsavory their profession has come to be viewed by an ever-increasingly cynical mass of consumers, and they seem to think they can actually combat this attitude simply putting the brakes on the IHB. Although they might not yet realize how far past the tipping point they already are, I imagine they are about to be clued in… You rock IR!
A friend of mine placed a sound activated voice recorder in his kitchen while he was in the process of selling his home. The conversations he recorded between his “agent” and prospective buyers and other agents were horrifying. Basically the Realtor sold him down the river by trying to explain to every prospective buyer how to they could work together to bring down the price. Of course, this is no surprise, but certainly provides a confirming data point that realtors are not fiduciaries and the application of the term agent is a misnomer in that they are only acting their own best interest.
All of this begs the question.
What is the value of a Realtor?
For the life of me I can’t figure it out.
…What is the value of a Realtor?
For the life of me I can’t figure it out…
Neither can I.
Discussion of the “value” of a Realtor(tm) would
be a great IHB feature for another day.
There are some agents who put their client’s interests before their own desire to earn a commission and these same agents do not lie.
If organ sales were legal then we’d shortly know the true ‘value of a Realtor(tm)’…
Yeah, that’s gross but I just couldn’t resist – it popped into my head, honest!
I agree the action is frivolous (it’s a grievance, not sure if that’s lawsuit) but at the same time, I do think IR is over-the-top at times (as he admits himself).
The use of generalizations is tough because it paints the entirety (or even the majority) of the group a certain way when it may not even be that high a percentage.
Just like this blog makes it seem like Irvine is the “epicenter” of HELOC abuse, I am sure there are many more equity owners here than there are ATM owners.
And ironically, as much as IR can say R/realtors misrepresent themselves, who is to say that’s not their actual belief? When IR went all bullish on Vegas, many of us decried his actions. How much has Vegas dropped since his initial recommendation to buy there because owning is below rental parity? 10%? 20%? Does anyone who bought in Vegas back then and seen their down payments disappear have a right to call out IR now based on his recommendations?
Or when IR predicted Irvine was going to drop 40%+ by now… can someone accuse him of “lying”?
To be clear, OCAR doesn’t really have a good case, but I don’t think IR it totally innocent either. He does exaggerate the data a bit but as this is a blog, that’s his right to do so. I’m just more concerned over the allegations of misuse of MLS information. Without knowing the details, that would be something they could be justified in.
There are only degrees of truth. IR is just more truthful then the others right now. Everyone lies.
Truthiness is real world application. no black or white.
IR, keep up the good fight. You are truly one of the last bastions of truth. Unlike the filty, dirty, corrupt white collar organized crime real estate industrial complex. Here is what I posted on the OC Register, I would love to hear a response to this by the realtor talking heads:
There is no way on this earth that realtors are getting a free pass after being complicit in the largest fraud, theft, scam that almost brought down the world economy. I know we’ll hear the old story “realtors don’t give out loans, so you can’t blame them.” Realtors were supposed to have a fiduciary responisbility to their clients, looking out after their clients best interest. However, when an easy money commision can be made that’s when that responsibility went out the window. It seemed like a great idea at the time to put a clown who made 50K/year into that 500K house with zero down…the bigger the transaction, the bigger the commision.
Yes, realtors you are included in the blame. Just like Wall St., the banks, Fannie, Freddie, the Federal Reserve, Congress, NAR, CAR, etc. I hope Larry Roberts smacks these clowns down. Everyone of these jokers has had a part in distoring the real estate market for short term profit while a generation got financially wiped out or put off homeownership, starting a family simply because it wasn’t economically feasible. Eat that!
The OCAR is utter BS and they know it, they just don’t like being called out on it.
They are sooo many Unreal-tors that spin so much BS that these allegations are ridiculous. The statements that have been said to me during open houses as fact rather than opinion is astonishing.
Statements like this home is priced under market value (saying this asset is being sold for less than it’s worth) when it’s priced higher than any comp is lying. Under market-value gives the impression of a good investment or ability to make a profit (buy low, sell high)
Saying a kitchen has top-of-the line “best” appliances, when I see a mix of GE, LG, and Kitchen-Aid appliances when none of those appliances are even the top of of the line in GE, LG or Kitchen-Aid’s actual product line, is lying.
Saying a lot is 6000sq feet when the county assessor says is 5321 is lying. Saying the house is 3400 sq feet, when the county records and builder says it’s 3144 is lying. Not doing your due-diligence as a Realtor and checking the facts on your listings is negligence in my opinion.
Sorry for the rant, nobody likes being lied to and the straight faces that they give while spewing this information means they’ve done it over and over, time after time..
IR: “OCAR should leave me alone”
HELL NO!!! They should keep it coming! I wanna see you on 60 Minutes! 😀
Seriously, how stupid could these guys be? Well, obviously, you have nothing to fear from these clowns. The only one that I worry about in the least in this situation is Shevy. Will he be obligated to appear before their kangaroo court? If I were him, and they tried to force me to appear, I’d promptly cancel my membership, tell them where to stuff it, and go on to serve as a shining example of how one can be a successful and profitable real estate agent without being a dues-paying [r]ealtor. Bring on the membership decline! It’ll be like rats fleeing a sinking ship! After all, why pay the dues if the organization’s only function is to prosecute honesty.
Well done, IR!!! Truly well done!!! 🙂
-Darth
Larry, Pardon my ignorance, but how can some Realtor organization have any jurisdiction, for lack of a better word, over an indie broker like yourself with their “disciplinary committee”?
Looks like you might become a non-person and get airbrushed out of photos like Stalin did.
BTW, this is definitely going to turn out to be a “Streisand Effect” for these dipshits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Look forward to seeing you on 60 Minutes!
BTW, opinion is protected speech against defamation claims, as I’m sure your attorneys have pointed out.
IR. First of all, I want to thank you for the Blog which has been a great resource for People like me who are too busy to collect all the valuable TRUTHFULL Data you provide here…you have save many potential Buyers thousands of Dollars and years of misery while OCAR have been doing the complete OPPOSITE.
Secondly, we LOVE our Realtor!! OCAR are only trying to give the good ones a bad name by firing the first shot in a war they will never win..
Thirdly, and most importantly, dont’t let OCAR (Orange County Ass Reamers) get you down, you have Thousands of greatful Readers, we’re behind you, they are outnumbered by thousands.
Now sit back and enjoy IHB Traffic Skyrocket!!
PS: Do OCAR have a Blog? If not, they should create one. *waiting*
Yes, they do!
Here it is: http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=3kgn7gvsip931jsu2hc004ogh5;wwwRedirect
It’s always a great time to buy, buy, buy!
Buy now or be priced in forever!!
Six-percenters unite!!!
-Darth
Oops, that’s priced OUT forever! 😉 Freudian slip! 🙂
-Darth
Price out forever? Rather “Buy in haste,repent in leisure”
Should someone file a grievance against you for misrepresenting TalkIrvine as a blog for the OCAR? 😆
If you even read the site, you will see many members complaining about the high prices the Irvine Company is charging for their new 2011 home developments. TI is just as fair minded as the IHB likes to be… except it actually has Irvine residents commenting rather than armchair quarterbacks.
Come to think of it, the Tuscana at Laguna Altera is $400K overpriced, thanks for reminding me :shut:
Should someone file a grievance against you for misrepresenting TalkIrvine as a blog for the OCAR?
Please do!!! I love to hear RE shills whine! 🙂
-Darth
Some of us are Irvine residents and/or recent/future home buyers.
Yeah… but we’re the minority.
Many of the frequent commentors are non-Irvinites.
TalkIrvine is a solid website. There are a lot of cheerleaders there, but there are also a few people who understand that Irvine Real Estate isn’t as strong as is represented by the typical Irvine Realtor.
$400k is being generous by about $100k.
You got me there, I can’t argue with that…
then again, who needs more than 100 sq ft of yard anyway? With $1800 worth of Tax/MR and HOA to pay every month on top of the mortgage one would be too busy working 3 jobs to spend time in it anyway!!
Toscana, and most of Laguna Altura, is located on verified “vermin” land. Rats, field mice, you name it, have created huge colonies underground.
In fact, if you walk around the empty lots of Laguna Altura, you will see that TIC has called in exterminators that have seeded the lots with traps, poisoned food, etc.
Of course this is just a short term solution to get ride of the occasional scurrying mouse that would scare away potential suckers. Once they sell the homes, it’s party time, and the crawl spaces in your home become a breeding ground for rodents.
Is this disclosed? That’s horrifying!
It’s not exactly on the TIC brochure material, but during an open house, simply walk around some of the open lots. You’ll find the rat traps laying around. It’s not exactly unexpected, that area of Irvine has been grassy, uninhabited hills for many, many years.
OCAR Blog, not much on it though..
http://blog.ocar.org/
I’m a little confused how it can be an anonymous complaint? I took a quick look at the grievance procedure on the OCAR web-site and it looks like the grievant has to identify themselves and the specific instance(s) that brought about the grievance? I’m not expert in this type of proceeding, but the grievance seems to fail on this ground alone if the article is correct. If it wasn’t an anonymous grievance, then the person behind the complaint should be publicly named.
My general take is that this seems to be a bad PR move (no pun intended) on the part of OCAR. I Wouldn’t be surprised if this didn’t drive more people to this web-site (see Streisand effect mentioned above).
I take it back, I see there is a procedure for submitting an anonymous grievance. But again, it still appears as though there has to be details related to specific instance(s) of alleged wrongdoing. Based on the article, the complaint appears to fail on this gound alone.
What stage of the process is this in? Was the complaint just filed or did the anonymous complaint subcommittee find a violation?
This complaint is on its second pass through the ethics committee. The first answer they received did not placate them, so that pressed ahead based on no facts but a burning desire to shut down this site.
Sorry to ask the same question twice, but I really need to see if I am reading this correctly. It is OCAR’s ethics committee they have filed a grievance with, not a licensing board or some such? And you are not a member of OCAR?
So what do they think they can do if some nutcases at OCAR approve their grievance? What exactly do they want? Will they kick you out of an organization you do not belong to? Will they censure you from an organization you do not belong to?
I am truly confused.
Ultimately, what they want is for me to shut up. This is a pure freedom of speech case. They will pull whatever maneuvers they think they can to censure my free speech.
There isn’t much they can do, but they may attempt to terminate my MLS access. Whatever they do, it will be shown for what it is: infringement on free speech.
For them to go after you, the must feel threatened
so good for you, and us, who get the facts not noise
Larry, Best of luck to you. I work in sales, but have always been truthful with clients. I like to think we are in partnership, so we both benefit. I see most realtors just wanting to sell, without concern of what it might mean to the customer down the road. Just my opinion. Cheers!
I wonder if PR is really the alter ego of IR?
Does anyone have tinfoil for me to make a hat out of?
Sales must really be hurting for OC realtors if now is the time they decided to take secret action against you.
Rock on, Larry!! The more they make a fuss about you, the more damaging the publicity becomes for them. Right now, people are pissed at banks and realtors.
I really hope there comes a time where your services can be provided to us here in San Diego.
Good Luck!
I’ve purchased and sold 4 properties and had two rentals over the past 18 years….so around 15 transactions, plus a few that didn’t go through. Out of that 15, only 1 realtor (the last one) impressed me with his honesty. The rest should be ashamed of themselves for one thing or another. A few lies have been infuriating. Get ’em, tiger. Represent.
Please, please don’t allow these hollow threats affect your blog which is cherished among the community of renters that have no other voice. Your blog provides my wife and I with the only reciprocity available in a world that has taken our tax dollars and bailed out a disturbing majority of those greedy HELOC abusers in the past 5 years. Your blog is our only voice. Please don’t let it be silenced by this disturbing, baseless, ill-founded attempt to shut you up. Fight on, and start a legal fund if it comes to that.
Good idea…”Fight on, and start a legal fund if it comes to that.”
Being a realtor by necessity and disagreeing with everything the CAR and NAR stand for, I applaud you.
A legal defense fund would be a good idea. Your followers would support you, including me.
You can’t be silenced IrvineRenter! Your readers support you.
As you are fond of music video’s here is a link. Let’ us remember a certain someone who went from obsurity to mainstream hit after a large organization took her on and tried to ban everyone from listening to her offiensive music …
Madonna – Like A Prayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA983t3Rdzs
IR,
I’ve been a daily reader here for a very long time and I’ve never seen you say anything dishonest or attack anyone personally. While I don’t always agree with everything I’ve read here that’s okay as people can honestly disagree on matters of opinion. (i.e., whether or not MERS & the robosigners have broken with chain of title) And some of your posts have been quite funny, humor much appreciated in these dark times. If the OCAR is after you then it means you’re doing something very right. Good on! At the least you might gain some new readers and my personal hope is that those Realtor(tm) types get too embarrassed by your graphics to keep using the words “stunning”, “cozy”, “gourmet kitchen”, “tot lot” or type in “all caps” in their listings.
Keep fighting the good fight. You have a LOT of support out there. Realtors are overpaid waitresses. And full of shit. Or too stupid to know the difference.
Are Deeds and Deeds of Trust security instruments? Put a couple together and you’re regulated by the SEC (not that they showed many teeth during the bubble). I wonder if anyone in the SEC would have any interest in regulating realtors like securities dealers.
The rates of appreciation of the value changing asset during the bubble was incredible. Take a $500k home, $250k replacement value of structure, so $250k for the land. Then it appreciates to $1M. Replacement value of the structure didn’t really change in 2 years. So the land went from $250k to $750k. Is that rate of appreciation really sustainable? Do people pay any attention to the breakdown in value between the land and the structure?
OMG, I cracked up when I read the headline!
Realtors complaining about someone lying – the very definition of hypocrisy. Or chuztpah – what’s that definition? A man who murders his parents pleading for mercy from the court because he is an orphan. Sounds like a Realtor!
Just by the way they always say, “It’s a perfect time to buy!” they demonstrate themselves to be liars!
Well, it’s laughable but not so funny if you have to deal with it. Larry, we’re behind you 100% percent and if there is something we can do to help, you have to let us know.
I’ve been a long time lurker here and very thankful for all the advice and facts IR has posted. IR, you have my full support!
Just adding my modest voice of support as a long time lurker and rare poster.
I don’t always 100% agree with irvine renter, but, when he does take a side different than my own I take care to follow his facts and logic – I may not always be persuaded but I always learn something.
I would take this as a panic action by OCAR. IR you are on the right side of this.
The silver lining, if there is one, is that it means Larry has gotten his word out.
That he has educated an entire group of readers, and it has had such an impact that OCAr is filing a baseless law suit to shut him down.
Thanks Larry.
IR,
Instead of Queen you should have gone with Henry Rollins – Liar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg
what is that like 8 things u wrote (including this one) about how bad realtors are
u ever think maybe they’re just not worth that much press
Can we see the complaint?
Since others are named in the complaint, and since they are OCAR members bound by their agreements, I am not posting the complaint here out of respect for them.
Would you like me to post in on my blog?
That was “it”, not “in”.
The others who are implicated should never have been brought into it. The committee was overreaching to try to apply pressure on me in other ways.
@awgee – where is your blog?
Sorry Minimorty, I just now read your qustion.
http://www.cotohousingblog.com/?p=16869
Thanks for the reply, IR…and for all your efforts – I love this blog!
it is posted on coto de caza housing blog. they have a pdf link to the everything that ocar sent and the letter your attorney wrote. sorry, but do have to question your respect for the others named. What difference does it make if you post it here or give it to someone else to post.
🙂
IR:
As a lurker to the IHB I am impressed by your honesty and insightful analysis. There is far too little of it in the blogosphere. Kudos for not backing down.
You made it on Thebigpicture blog!!
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/orange-county-realtors-vs-irvinehousingblog-com/
129 Astute Observations, I wonder if that is a record.
If it is, thanks OCAr.
Oh, I am *so* glad realtors are all about honesty!
Now can we have transparency in property transactions with all bidders, buyers, and agents publicly revealed on the MLS listing!
….along with each and every offer and counter-offer openly listed too.
No More phantom Bidders/Buyers/Investors!!!
Transparent real estate! WooHoo!
~Misstrial
Have had my RE license since 96′ and have known many, many Realtors. As a full time RE investor I have seen a lot thru the years. But I have never seen a more honest (or capable) Realtor than Shevy Akason. He has my full support vs OCAR though he does not need it. OCAR will make him and IHB famous. Look even now we are going viral….
I was friends with a person who then became a realtor. She actually dropped me, not the other way around; I think she realized that her new profession gagged me, although I was careful not to say so. For a couple of years – during the bubble – she occasionally contacted me, to tell me how many people she had “helped” by managing to get them into houses that they otherwise would not have been able to afford. She really believed that she was helping people – it was incredible. And she went to Reed; she wasn’t actually stupid, at least on an academic level. Which made her capacity for destruction that much greater.
I wonder how many lives she totally f*cked up, by being happy to spew the NAR line. Quite a few, I’d bet. Is she ashamed to have been so gullible, and to have led so many people into an economic abyss? I wonder.
IR, I’ve appreciated your honest and rational posts, and I thank you for fighting the good fight.
IR
Frequent reader of your blog. I agree with many, that a vast majority of your perspectives are backed with facts versus conjecture.
Keep up the great work, you have my support
Is now a good time to counter-attack?
Wouldn’t it be great to compare the services provided by Realtors in 1990, 2000, and today to help show how riduculous the 6% commission to realtors is in today’s world.
When I sold my condo in Chicago in early 2007 (which is now worth 40% less than what I sold it for)realtors were only getting 5% (2.5% for listing, 2.5% for buyer’s agent) because the market in Chicago had adjusted
When I moved to Texas, I was surprised to see 6% was still present
When I relocated here in ’09, my relocation company put a 4% buyer’s commission on our home to generate more interest (because they knew the realtors would talk up our property to break any ties b/c it meant an extra 3-6k in their pocket). Sure enough, within a week, we had a bidding war in one of the worst periods of the RE downturn….
so much for representing the best interests of their clients — if anyone ever believed that to be true.
Doctors take a Hippocratic oath. shouldn’t RE agents be subjected to the same, or automatically lose their license for life? it might not be strong enough, but I keep hearing about circumstances like this again and again.
How many of you out there have experienced a situation that I encountered last August
Was in the car with the realtor. They got a call related to a problem on a house nearing final walkthru (in this case a water related problem)
With me three feet away, they said “Just find a way to cover it up and fix it so it does not get noticed in final walkthru. In a week, this won’t be our problem”
In case you are wondering, that was the last day I worked with that agent…..
A man is know by who his enemies are.
Some RE agents I have used were very good and honest. Some not so honest. Since most technically work for the seller, buyer be warned. On honest one showing house to me even told me that he techically works for the seller so he can’t say if the house iw overpriced–but he could state that I has been on the market for a year without a bid.
Family has hired a realtor to find a house. Became close friends and then had her find another house a decade later and to sell the old house.
Any Realtor or Organization that goes after Larry and the IHB will NEVER get any business from me or my family – and I will tell everyone that I know to avoid them as well.
From my experience, I have learned that the MLS is set up to attempt by Realtors to control the market. Both listing/selling and buying. I have also learned that “insider” trading is NOT illegal if you are a Realtor. In many cases, any property you see on listed on an MLS listing service in FACT MUST BE OVERPRICED. If it were a “good deal” Brokers and agents ALWAYS get first dibs at the “deals”. What we see that is left is the JUNK that Realtors do not want to buy for their own investments. I have even heard them,..in violation of their own ethics rules, call listed houses “GARBAGE” or “JUNK”. This can be for ANY reason…since they OWN or control the local market.
My BS detector is buzzing off most times I see them. Why see them? Because they are the ONLY effective portal or access to the MLS REAL (not public) information that only REALTORS receive.
I have been investigating criminals for years..and I see and hear many RED FLAGS …once they start talking.
though this situation may be slightly overstated, I do believe there is some real truth to it as well. there is a solution to this.
the more that sellers go FSBO or don’t use the local MLS, by using alternatives like redfin, trulia, or zillow, it will keep _r_ealtors’ grubby little hands off the appealing properties, while saving the seller a pretty penny (assuming they don’t condone lying to get a higher price).
OCAr is adding to the snowball of disdain that is growing against lying realtards. OCAr, CAr & NAr represent everything wrong w this country and they know that cracks have been forming for years in their nazi monopolistic foundation. May they close down just like many of their customers, who are now facing foreclosure due to pressure tactics by these soon-obselete cheerleaders.
Larry, you are the man. Long time reader of your blog. I can never figure out how you can pack SO MUCH meticulous and substantial analysis into your posts day in and day out. Where do you find the time?! The reality is you won’t see a dime from many of us, yet we have benefited greatly (financially and otherwise) from your advice. If we all weren’t such selfish OC’ers, I’d say we should ea give $500 toward your legal fees. How great would it be to see the OCAr, CAr and NAr put in their place!
Larry, I’ve been reading the IHB website for the last few years now. I completely agree with you on your views and I also appreciate you putting in the evidence to support your claims. It just takes common sense to analyze the situation to know that homes are ridiculously over priced in general still relative the the average income earned. These GREEDY, SELF SERVING, SELFISH UNETHICAL LYING realtors made a killing with the real estate bubble. And now, with housing economy being in a complete mess, they get so butt hurt because their industry is suffering and someone has the guts to expose their untruthfulness. I have been saving for the last few years and refuse to even think of buying a home until it is sensible to do so. Which means a probable drop of another additional 20% of the current market prices and when the banks finally unveil most of the shadow inventory that they’ve been trying to hide. So here’s a one finger solute to those lying opportunist realtors. You deserve to suffer for your greed.
Hope it ends quickly and without drama Larry – Realtors have made misleading statements to me on numerous occasions, it’s sickening, and people like you out there telling the truth are of course going to be a target for this coalition of the dishonest who have fleeced the entire country for their 6% and took the entire economy down in the process.
If there were any justice in the world anymore, people would show up at your so-called “hearing” with pitchforks…
**OCAR’s Rena Budesky, who signed the grievance, declined to answer questions…
**OCAR president Jean Tietgen did not respond to a reporter’s call…
Of course, Mall Cops!!
Keep up the TRUTH Larry!!
I’ve been dealing with Real Estate Agents for nearly 40 years, having bought my first house in 1971, and a total of three in my life. I have lived in my current house for 23+ years. Over the years, I have been fairly lucky (certainly not skilled), and in general I believe that owning houses has been better for me than renting.
But:
I have never understood why anyone would give any more creedence to a Real Estate Agent’s advice than they would that of a used car salesman.
Nothing against either group, but anyone with reasonable intelligence should realize that the job description for both and thier compensation structure requires them to “push the tin”.
So, while I think that Real Estate Agents (and most other sales “professions”) have some culpability for stretching the truth and making unfounded representations, it is ultimately the buyer of the property that did not do adequate due diligence in what is likely the single largest financial transacton of his life.
Hopefully the world will learn a lession from all of this, but I doubt it will happen.
Jim C., I think the difference is that a used car salesman is obviously not representing you, they are clearly representing the dealership. A closer analogy would be a car broker, whose job it is to represent the buyer of the car to get the best deal possible and to eliminate all the hassle normally associated with buying a car. In that analogy, the car broker is what they appear to be, and the realtor is not. Realtors typically “represent” the buyer or the seller. The perception by many is that because of that, their agent is looking out for them and will get them the best possible price/deal. This perception is encouraged by the Realtor establishment, and became laughable in the now infamous “Suzanne researched this!” commercial.
The reality, of course, is very different. For the most part, the seller’s agent wants to get the deal done so they earn their commission regardless of how much the home sells for. The buyer’s agent wants the same, but they want the buyer to bid as much as possible to make sure the sellers accept the offer so they can earn the commission. The only person they are motivated to truly “represent” is themselves and their commissions. It’s a very flawed system which the IHB has helped to expose.
But I do agree…going in with eyes wide open to the reality of all this is key for any buyer or seller.
Hold it Planet~you are obviously not a Realtor or member of any MLS or you would know that any information you term “personal” that has been reported on this forum, is, in fact, “public information”, available at the County Recorder’s Office or through title companies. The MLS does not ask for and does not include mortgage histories, nor original sales prices. Nor does the MLS fact check any information that is input,,,,that is done soley by the Listing Agent, often with a lot of innacurate information. MLS does not have any employee/employor relationship that allows them to evaluate agents performance or presentation. In addition the MLS does supply active listing information to other sources, such as Realtor.com which is a free on-line service anyone may access. MLS is, and has been sued in the past, a monopoly designed to create a massive apparatus for collecting dues, and more recently manditory contributions to PAC groups such as NAR and CAR. Dues to those organizations used to be ‘voluntary’, they are now manditory. MLS acts very like a “Union shop”, except that they don’t negotiate compensation, provide health benefits, or retirement provisions. You MUST pay to play. So get your “facts” straight.
Do Real Estate Brokers Lie?
Is it fair to say that real estate brokers lie? That allegation has become the center of a massive dispute between a California real estate broker and the Orange County Association of Realtors.
Larry Roberts is a California real estate broker who operates the IrvineHousingBlog.com. As with a huge number of other real estate brokers, he opines about various issues related to local real estate and other matters.
And so it happened that in March Roberts published a blog item which said in part that real estate brokers “are liars. We all know that, yet we tolerate and even encourage the behavior. Why would anyone want to hear bullshit? Apparently some people do. That doesn’t make much sense to me either.”
The response from OCAR has been to file a disciplinary complaint against Roberts claiming he violated Article 15 of the organization’s Code of Ethics, a provision which says association members should not “knowingly lie about competitors.”
Roberts, via his attorney, Scott Sims, notes that “Roberts is not a member of the OCAR, OCAR has no right to initiate a disciplinary proceeding against Roberts, and no grievance panel convened by OCAR has jurisdiction over Roberts. Accordingly, even if Roberts had engaged in wrongdoing (which he has not), any disciplinary action taken by an OCAR grievance panel would carry no legal force and effect and OCAR would be exposing itself to liability for any and all damages to Roberts resulting from any disciplinary action.”
Tradition
If the question is whether Roberts is provocative the answer is yes. So what? Roberts has his opinion, you and I have ours, and everyone can individually decide what they think. The free exchange of ideas — including strongly-expressed ideas — is healthy, useful and a basic American value, one expressed clearly in the First Amendment.
St. George Tucker, author of the Americanized version Blackstone’s Commentaries, put it this way in 1803:
“Liberty of speech and of discussion in all speculative matters, consists in the absolute and uncontrollable right of speaking, writing, and publishing, our opinions concerning any subject, whether religious, philosophical, or political….”
If you don’t like Robert’s view then go to his blog and post a comment which tears into his opinions. No need to be shy.
Or, ignore him.
There are more than a trillion pages that have been indexed by Google. If you don’t make a big deal out of Roberts’ comment it will sink in an ocean of content.
Instead, by filing a grievance, OCAR has amplified the conversation and given Roberts a huge platform for his views.
Puffery
Real estate licensees typically have an obligation to avoid error, exaggeration,
misrepresentation, or concealment of material facts. However, they can be and should be advocates for their client’s interests and toward that end they can engage in puffery.
“Puffery,” explains Wikipedia, “as a legal term refers to promotional statements and claims that express subjective rather than objective views, such that no reasonable person would take them literally. Puffery serves to ‘puff up’ an exaggerated image of what is being described and is especially featured in testimonials.”
In other words, a listing broker has every right to say, “gee, I really love the kitchen. Look at those great cabinets and the terrific view of the patio.” That’s puffery and should be taken for what it represents: salesmanship and advocacy. Everybody in every field and profession does that.
What the listing broker can’t say is that “the property has 20,000 square feet of ground” when it only has 15,000 square feet. That’s a lie and should be punished.
It will be interesting to see where the dispute between Roberts and OCAR winds up. Stay tuned.
From HousingWire.com
Blogger, California Realtor association feud over blog posts
Wednesday, June 8th, 2011, 8:21 am
A real estate broker in Irvine, Calif., is fighting claims he lied and disparaged professional real estate agents by criticizing them on a blog for failing to give homebuyers the best advice.
The Orange County Association of Realtors alleges Larry Roberts used a blog to discuss the real estate community’s ethical practices.
While Roberts never identified any individual real estate agent, he argued they employ salesperson-type tactics, acting without any obligation to offer sound advice that could dissuade buyers from bad deals.
His comments rattled the Orange County Association of Realtors, prompting the association to send a letter requesting Roberts attend a disciplinary hearing for violating an ethics code under multiple listing service agreements.
Roberts’ attorney fired back, arguing in a letter that OCAR has no jurisdiction over Roberts, who is a real estate broker but not a member of the trade group. Roberts also contends any attempt to silence him is unconstitutional.
“This is America. Mr. Roberts would welcome an informed data-driven debate on the housing market,” said Scott Simms, Roberts’ attorney. “Unfortunately OCAR prefers secret trials to silence him. Roberts has done nothing wrong. He has only exercised the free speech rights that every American holds dear.”
A spokesperson for OCAR could not be reached for comment.
One of Roberts’ main points of concern is the structure of the Realtor job description. He argued in blog posts that brokers escaped the crisis with their reputations intact, even though he believes they were complicit in failing to warn clients about housing bubbles and inflated home values.
Roberts contends that real estate brokers should either assume some professional responsibility to advise clients on areas of risk, or they should admit publicly that they are commissioned-based sales agents who should not be relied upon for unbiased counsel.
Write to Kerri Panchuk.
You’ve made it to Jim the Realtor’s blog. I think he’s behind you, too.
First off, I never write in, but this is just too much…
When they come at you with a knife, you use a gun….
Maybe it’s time to take a poll of the readers and see how many provable lies realtors create just through the mls system. How many erroneous mls postings have they made with regards to “days on market”? This one category alone would probably be sufficient to file conspiracy charges against the whole southern Ca realtor and mls associations.
I am sure there are many readers out there who would contribute to an information fund to help you build a case. I for one would. I would think that the threat of this alone would cause them to scury back under their rocks, for if they think what you said was bad, think of how tarnished they look when multiples of examples hit the mainstream media by your counter-suit.
Keep the faith!
IR –
I’ve bought and sold numerous properties across the nation. Though I have worked with several high quality professionals who were realtors (and remain close friends with a couple), I’ve seen plenty of realtors who were low quality scum bags. Like any easy entry / high paying profession, real estate will attrack all kinds. Its just very sad and telling that the OCAR thinks that you are the problem.
On a different yet related note – I saw a poll today that 51 % of Rep. Weiner’s district thinks that he should keep his job. I won’t comment on his actions but I can’t believe that that many people will accept representation from a person who openly lied to them and then admitted it only after he had to. Where did our sense of morals and integrity go? So if 51 % of people are happy to represented by this kind of character, is there any chance that realtors that stretch the truth for their own gain should have job security fears.
The housing cool-aide is alive and well in the OC. We just won’t see it again until the banks and developers can figure out a way to get people into “affordable” housing easliy again. Realtors will be right there with them selling the “truth” to line their pockets.
Go to the meeting and have a ball Larry. I’m sure you’ll do your homework and be well prepared. You have a lot to learn / gain and not much to loose. If you approach it with the right mindset, it could actually be fun. Personally, I’d try to figure out a way to spin them up soooo much that their little brains pop.
Good luck and I’m behind you.
FH
Good for you. You’re making the thieves squeal.
I don’t comment here often, as my goals do not include buying a home, whether in California or anywhere else–but I’ve appreciated your efforts to shine a light on the real estate bubble and its deleterious effects.
The fact that they’re suing you is hilarious. They have delusions of adequacy, and yet they’re petrified of your influence. It’d be a comedy if not for the utter destruction these people have left in their wake.
News Flash: IrvineRenter is right
http://www.ocregister.com/news/sparks-303684-irvine-choi.html
I would love to see a story like this one hit 60 Minutes. Seriously. Orange County. Large SUVs. Realtors collecting their corner “for sale” signs.
Foreclosures and equity withdrawal up the yingyang. It’s 2011 and the rest of m’merica still doesn’t have a clue what’s gone down/still going down out here.
You should agree to do it under the expressed condition that Mike Wallace come back to do the interview and investigation. 🙂
I’m a past client of Shevy’s and I fully endorse the service and professionalism provided. You have my full support, not that you guys need more.
Keep up the great work, IR.
In the words of the Toasters song: “Don’t let the bastards grind you down.”
http://www.cotohousingblog.com/
the 5 Lies All Sellers (and their RE agents) Tell:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/First-Person-The-5-Lies-All-ac-1096324323.html
Why deny you are “running a brokerage”? Everyone knows you are partners with Shevy Akason and run your deals through his company.
Shevy is an agent I refer people to, and as you noted, any transactions are run through his broker. My business model is not a brokerage model.
This is what I posted today on the O.C Register article about the blogger vs OCAR. Not rants or outrageous name calling, but the facts on the issue of lying.
Let’s look at the heart of the issue: Is the real estate industry filled with licensed members who are dishonest/commit fraud on the public? The facts below were found on the Department of Real Estate Official Web site:
In the July 28, 2010 commissioners publication for immediate release, the headline reads, “Record Number of License Revocations for the 4th straight year.”
06/07 07/08 08/09 09/10
553 705 826 886
The most staggering statistic was that as of 7/28/10 there were, “5,400 Open Investigations.”
The above are statistics that don’t lie or make personal attacks on a blogger for being correct in his article.