As the housing market crumbles, those most responsible for its demise are the ones suffering the least.
Irvine Home Address … 115 OVAL Rd Irvine, CA 92604
Resale Home Price …… $329,000
Caviar and cigarettes
Well versed in etiquette
Extraordinarily nice
Recommended at the price
Insatiable an appetite
Wanna try?
Queen — Killer Queen
The banksters taking over our country enjoy extraordinarily nice lives of caviar and cigarettes. They're insatiable greed is only surpassed by their lack of accountability. In last weeks post on shadow inventory, I came across a February story on how bankers let each other squat. It really made me angry:
Bankers allow each other to squat
One of the most infuriating facts about shadow inventory is its epicenter: the New York MSA. Boneheads in New York think their market is immune as it is one of the few where properties still routinely trade at peak prices. Little do they know that this price stability is an illusion created by shadow inventory.
Shadow inventory to push foreclosures to new heights
by JACOB GAFFNEY — Wednesday, February 2nd, 2011, 3:57 pm
“The shadow inventory in the New York MSA will take the longest to clear — 130 months as of fourth-quarter 2010. That is at least twice as long as it will take in any of the other top 20 MSAs and 2.7 times the average time to clear for the U.S. as a whole,” the S&P report states. “This is primarily due to very low liquidation rates in New York.”
What the hell is this? Very low liquidation rates? Why is that? Could it be that bankers don't want to hurt their own property values? What other reason could there be? Assholes.
The behavior of the banksters has been utterly reprehensible. They unleash a destructive Ponzi virus on our financial system for their own personal enrichment. When their Ponzi virus consumes the housing equity of a generation, they (1) give themselves huge bonuses, they (2) lobby government for handouts, and they (3) selectively refuse to foreclose on properties in their neighborhoods to preserve their own property values.
These creatures have taken greed and unaccountability to new hubristic heights.
A Lawyer's Perspective on… Promoting and Preserving Failure in America
Friday, March 18, 2011 — Capitalism Without Failure
It was with considerable sadness that I learned, during the financial crisis, that people I knew – economists, investment professionals, bankers – had given bad advice to their companies and their clients. They had not seen a housing bubble developing. They had not seen a highly over-leveraged banking system. They had not questioned the viability of an opaque derivatives industry that was growing exponentially. In fact, they had not seen any abnormal risk. And they had advised their clients and firms accordingly. As a result, their funds and their portfolios and their clients lost massive amounts of money.
I was concerned for these people. After all, their inability to call a major economic catastrophe, with plenty of warning signs, had led to horrible losses. And since plenty of people had been predicting a collapse… I assumed that my friends would all be losing their jobs, and their reputations.
That is a very reasonable assumption. Bankers should be held accountable for the problems they created. Those responsible should have lost jobs, and some of the worst should have gone to prison.
I could not have been more wrong. That's not how it works in the world of elite finance and economics. In the highest echelons of economics and banking and investing and advising, the people that succeed are not the ones that get it right. The people that succeed are the ones that do what they have to do in order to succeed.
Fifteen years ago, I completed a Masters Degree in International Economics at the Johns Hopkins School of International Studies. I had studied with a number of people that ended up working at top banks. In 2005, I had been considering a home purchase but was becoming convinced that real estate in the USA was in an unsustainable bubble. At that point, I had been working as an attorney for a number of years – so I thought I should speak to an expert. I called an economist friend of mine that had ended up at Goldman Sachs and asked him about the possibility that there was a bubble that could be bursting. He assured me that the economy was strong, and robust, and that I had nothing to worry about. He told me that economists who were worrying about potential weakness ahead, had it dead wrong and that they should be ignored. He called them “crazy”.
If I had listened to him, I would have bought a house at the height of the market – and would have lost every penny of down payment that I had managed to scrape together. Luckily, I did not listen. Instead, I considered what he said. Then I read more about what was going on and decided to take a huge risk – I decided to ignore the experts, to not to buy a home, and to risk missing out on the huge appreciation that those experts were predicting. In the end, he turned out to be wrong – not jut a little bit wrong, but absolutely and completely incorrect.
How many realtors and mortgage brokers told their clients tales that turned out to be a fantasy? And how many of those buyers made their decision based on the faulty advice? Do the realtors involved feel guilt or shame over their responsibility for the family financial catastrophes that resulted from their bad advice?
I didn't see him until after the meltdown was well behind us. I assumed he had lost his job. After all, his analysis was an absolute disaster. And he had been more than willing to share it.
Here's where my own powers of analysis failed in a major way: I assumed that he would have lost his job; instead, he had been promoted. In fact, not one person I knew in the financial industry had lost their job. I remember subsequently chatting with another Goldman Sachs economist shortly after the bailouts. He seemed completely unaware that there was even an issue with regard to how the industry had been protected. All that was really going on for him was that he had multiple nannies helping to care for his 2 young children. He was otherwise in terrific spirits.
My very fortunate friends turned out to be a perfect microcosm of what we all witnessed: the worst analysts with the worst judgment that got us into the worst financial quagmire in a century, were not only maintained – they were promoted. This happened in the private sector, academia, and in the public sector. In the public sphere, Tim Geithner and Ben Bernanke come to mind. And let's not forget Robert Rubin and Larry Summers. (And I would sincerely appreciate it if we could stop hearing from Alan Greenspan – arguably the arch-architect of our misery.)
We have done little to fix the underlying problems. We have now entrenched incompetence and largess into our system of finance at the expense of good governance.
We all know why my friends ended up on top; we bailed out their failed banks and our compromised financial system. That is wrong on many levels. But it's not as wrong as what has happened within our government. If our political economy had been functioning properly, Geithner and Bernanke would have lost their jobs – and their influence – long ago. Instead, Bernanke is arguably the most powerful individual in the world. And Tim Geithner (an alum of mine from SAIS!) is not far behind.
The United States has an incredibly resilient economy. It has withstood mismanagement and corruption on a scale that rivals almost any country in this world. It continues to putt along, notwithstanding the undermining of meritocracy, fairness, and justice – in every sphere. Unfortunately, the long-term prospects for a system that promotes the most corrupt and most compromised actors is poor.
Even the most resilient economy on earth requires the rejuvenation that comes with the removal of people with failed ideas, poor judgment, and who are corrupt. Our current leadership has taken a stand when it comes to our economy: instead of weeding out the corruption and allowing for organic economic strength to return, they are working to overwhelm the corruption-induced-failure with the economic equivalent of steroids. That can only work temporarily when the worst and most corrupt actors are allowed to thrive and maintain leadership roles. Ultimately, those compromised people and their compromised ideas will threaten our macro-economy again. We will never need principled and courageous leadership more than when that eventuality is upon us.
How do we purge the system?
Our financial services sector is too large. Contrary to popular belief on Wall Street, pushing paper does not create value. Wall Street is supposed to determine which sectors of our economy and which businesses obtain capital to expand. They are traffic cops directing the flow of money. Their activities create nothing of value directly, but they enable those who create valuable goods and services.
Unfortunately, we have let this sector of the economy take over. They believe their fiefdom will endure forever. Beyond the desire to save their own housing values in NYC, bankers believe someone will come along who makes enough to pay a huge mortgage. They plan on holding onto all their shadow inventory as long as they have to for overpaid bankster buyers to come back for NYC homes. They don't think it will take very long. If we don't stop them, they may be right.
Setting a low bar
The owners of today's featured property increased their mortgage by 50% in the 11 years they owned it. Personally, I don't think it is wise financial management to increase a mortgage balance by 50%, but it's what passes for conservative borrowing here in California.
- The property was purchased on 7/26/2000 for $175,500. The owners used a $157,950 first mortgage, and a $17,550 down payment.
- On 4/25/2001 they refinanced with a $165,000 first mortgage.
- On 4/11/2003 they refinanced with a $166,322 first mortgage.
- On 2/1/2008 they refinanced with a $222,000 first mortgage.
Their mortgage equity withdrawal was only $64,050, small by Irvine standards. As a result, they stand to get a check at closing. It will be about $75,000 smaller than it should be.
Irvine House Address … 115 OVAL Rd Irvine, CA 92604
Resale House Price …… $329,000
House Purchase Price … $175,500
House Purchase Date …. 6/26/2000
Net Gain (Loss) ………. $133,760
Percent Change ………. 76.2%
Annual Appreciation … 5.8%
Cost of House Ownership
————————————————-
$329,000 ………. Asking Price
$11,515 ………. 3.5% Down FHA Financing
4.79% …………… Mortgage Interest Rate
$317,485 ………. 30-Year Mortgage
$66,503 ………. Income Requirement
$1,664 ………. Monthly Mortgage Payment
$285 ………. Property Tax (@1.04%)
$0 ………. Special Taxes and Levies (Mello Roos)
$69 ………. Homeowners Insurance (@ 0.25%)
$140 ………. Homeowners Association Fees
============================================
$2,157 ………. Monthly Cash Outlays
-$155 ………. Tax Savings (% of Interest and Property Tax)
-$397 ………. Equity Hidden in Payment (Amortization)
$21 ………. Lost Income to Down Payment (net of taxes)
$41 ………. Maintenance and Replacement Reserves
============================================
$1,668 ………. Monthly Cost of Ownership
Cash Acquisition Demands
——————————————————————————
$3,290 ………. Furnishing and Move In @1%
$3,290 ………. Closing Costs @1%
$3,175 ………… Interest Points @1% of Loan
$11,515 ………. Down Payment
============================================
$21,270 ………. Total Cash Costs
$25,500 ………… Emergency Cash Reserves
============================================
$46,770 ………. Total Savings Needed
Property Details for 115 OVAL Rd Irvine, CA 92604
——————————————————————————
Beds: 2
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 1200
$274/SF
Property Type: Residential, Condominium
Style: Two Level, Contemporary
Year Built: 1972
Community: 0
County: Orange
MLS#: S652347
Source: SoCalMLS
Status: Active
On Redfin: 5 days
——————————————————————————
2 bedrooms 2 baths remodelled home has 19' tile floors on lower level, remodelled kitchen with newer appliances, recessed lighting, scraped ceilings, ceiling fans, attached garage, enter from dining room. Upgraded bathrooms with new tub and granite sink top. large back patio has avocado, lemon and grape trees. wide open street in front of the home makes it a desirable location in the tract. walk across to the shopping center and restaurants. close to library , parks and more. association offers pool, spa, basketball court, children's play area, bar b que and pays for insurance, water, hot water and trash. lots of greenery and plenty of parking in the neighborhood. this home can easily be converted to 3rd bedroom. NO MELLO ROOS, LOW TAX RATE. REGULAR SALE RESPONSE IN 24 HOURS.
“bar b que”
‘A’ for effort! I appreciate a “r”ealtor who tries!
Folks,
Continuing them from yesterday’s post – Take this to heart, prices in Irvine will be going down.
The fundamentals needed to illustrate this are as follows:
Median Income
Median House Price
The DTI of the Median Income borrower buying the median price home w/ a 720 FICO, 20% down, 30 Yr fixed rate mortgage
For Irvine
Median Income – ~112k
Median House – ~560k
DTI of Above Average Credit Median Income Borrower w/20% down and a fixed Mortgage – ~36%
Given the High “good weather” state taxes of CA, the median income worker will take home roughly 62% – 66% of their gross income (even less if high 401(k) saver). Applying that to the numbers above would leave the borrower with ~2500 a month to live on outside of housing expenses. Simply not enough to live a comfortable life.
Given downward pricing pressures of distressed properties, increasing shadow inventory and increasing interest rates, it just all adds up to more downward pricing
Add to that carry costs outside of mortgage expenses, such as Propert Tax, HOA dues, insurance and maintenance.
I estimate these costs alone to be 2-3% of property purchase price / year.
Thus, a $1mm home needs $20/30K of free cash flow
per year just to keep the doors open – *exclusive*
of any mortgage.
The only cartel that has been weak in Irvine the past 3 years is the home buyers cartel.
Post about endless price declines for Irvine one minute.
The next minute admire your 30% cash down payment and other assets in your bank account, your $125K or $250K income stubs in your loan application, and consider what open house you are going to this weekend.
Also continuing a topic from yesterday: 8 Whitecloud appears to already be going into escrow as they changed the status from Active to Pending/Backup Offers. Demand doesn’t appear to be weak as this was on the market for just a handful of days!
I genuinely hope cheaper pricing is on its way, but I’m skeptical in the short term.
Purchased in early 2009 for $660K.
Current market price $700K, pending in a few days.
Welcome to reality.
Cue the fanfare, more supply is on the way
Village of Stonegate scheduled to debut April 9th.
I think Stonegate is still a bit overpriced but selling better than the $1m+ San Marino at Woodbury.
TayMo at Las Ventanas, one of the few non-TIC built tracts, are selling SFRs from $627k-$700k (1871-2302sft)… and has almost sold out Phase 1 without opening the models yet.
Sales pace may be slower than 2010 including some discounting/incentives but ultimately, they’ll sell.
Demand for Irvine remains strong, in particular “new”
I am certain that all the new building going on is targeted at young families withchildren!
They know who has the money.
I think that it was priced right. It definitely caught my attention, and I don’t look in that area much. Just look at the prices of the other decent houses in that area (Landings I).
The statistics you point to says nothing about buyers median incomes.
How many houses are sold in Irvine a year? How many buyers have the income to support it?
Why do you keep pointing to median income as if that is what a typical buyer looks like today.
Why don’t you look at median Irvine mortgages and median irvine income and figure out what the DTI on it is.
90% of the people in my neighborhood I have met purchased prior to 2000. Do their current income have to support current prices or prices are going down?
Why do you keep pointing to median income as if that is what a typical buyer looks like today.
Is this the new theory? You can’t buy a house in Irvine if you make at or below median income?
“90% of the people in my neighborhood I have met purchased prior to 2000.”
Then they should have no problem with their purchase unless they’re HELOC abusers.
The problem is that they control the checkbooks of this nation, and it will be very difficult to supplant them. We have to have people powerful enough prove to the public that these people need to go. Unfortunately, they are one and the same…
“We have to have people powerful enough prove to the public that these people need to go.”
Well, I believe most in this nation thought they had voted for the *one* back in ’08….turns out that he’s nothing more than puppet #2.
Yeah, unfortunately I would have to agree… unless he starts having some backbone in the next 2 years.
“Banksters should be held accountable for ruining the housing market and economy”
If by Banksters you mean “Central Banksters”. The FED and fractional reserve banking is the ultimate ponzi scheme. You can trace every bubble back to the Fed. The real question is, “who owns the Fed”?
Just think, the nations chief banker is still in charge … and dictating monetary policy. Not only that, but now the Bernank has completely grabbed hold of our entire economy. No more free market, no more competeing sides. Quasi Capitalism.
AND … No corporate housecleaning of fatasses on Wall Street. Since the debacle in 08, we’ve seen one man, running a ponzi scheme, ripping off other rich people, go to jail.
Only in America.
Bankers live in the Bizzaro world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcjSDZNbOs0
I still have a problem with a POS townhome (that is almost as old as I am) with a price tag of over $300k. I don’t care if it is in Irvine. It’s ridiculous. If people would stop paying such outrageous prices, then the real estate market may come back to reality. Maybe.
People buy but can they really afford?
I personally know more than a few folks who
bought in Irvine (during the bubble) but
are living 1 missed paycheck away from disaster.
Why anyone would subject themselves to such
a situation is beyond me.
I think these overstretched loanowners would
be fascinating nutcase guests on Dr. Phil. Let Dr. Phil figure these guys out.
I live in the same subdivision – I rent in Irvine Company’s Deerfield Apts (generic, expensive but immaculately maintained!) – the neighborhood is largely Asian with the best schools but properties are insanely overpriced. Example: I rent a 3 bdrm apt in the same zip for ~$2000/month (including up-charge for multiple dogs). There are plenty of vacant apartments in here, so I can’t imagine the rents going UP. Oh, I have central air. This POS condo DOES NOT have central air. We are not even close to rental parity in this zip code. Pricing FAIL
The only time to do anything about the bankers was when the crisis was at its peak and the banks were desperate. Once the crisis had passed the bankers were like the monster in the sci-fi movie that reassembles itself and becomes stronger than before. It’s hilarious when I see Republicans in Congress talk about “free enterprise” and then go and vote the party line of the American Bankers Association. The ABA has something like 1,000 full time lobbyists in Washington.
Exactly why we need publicly-financed elections, at the very least on the national level.
npr is running a segment this week on the Fannie and Freddie and their role in housing both pre and post bubble. You can listen to the segments at http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/
Unrelated question. How does one get historical information about the refinance and loan activity on a specific property? Does one have to be a real estate professional, like Irvine Renter, to access this information? Many thanks.
I get it through a purchased subscription to sitexdata.com. It is all public record, but here in California, you need a data service to organize it and present it to you.
In some counties in Florida, you can do a public records search by name. Mortgages come up and usually have initial balances and terms come in when there is a arm-type rider. There is probably a 3rd party service too.
I think the obvious was missed in the article in today’s post. Don’t you get it? These guys were promoted because they WERE successful.
They made the housing bubble, they profited from the bubble and then when the bubble burst, they got the government to take their losses and everyone walked away free and clear. I don’t think they had failed ideas and poor judgement. Their judgement looks spot-on, to me.
The electorate failed by not insisting that these guys be held accountable.
Now, if you had a business and were looking for someone to protect you and your business and keep it profitable, would you hire one of those guys? In your heart, I bet you are saying “yes.”
I used to scoff at people who said that Wall Street attracted the best and brightest minds in the last 15 years or so, because of the bubble. Now, I think they were right.
Look it in the eye and see it for what it is.
“The electorate failed by not insisting that these guys be held accountable.”
What make you think the electorate were trying to hold them accountable? There job is to protect them from being accountable and keep the cash coming to them.
Who will pay for the underwater assets? The new buyers with large downpayments and the rest will be covered by the taxpayers.
I though the housing market would burst, but I did not think it would take down the stock market. And I didn’t think the stock market would bounce back so fast with the high unemployment. Low volume gives rise to high manipulation.
The Federal Reserve is owned by a bunch of Jewish terrorists hiding inside the USA and some hiding in European countries.
But American slaves are too docile to smoke these terrorists out of their caves. Think Warren, think Gates..and all you slaves in white shirts and blue ties.