The properties in Rosegate are beautiful, but the prices are still borderline WTF.
Asking Price: $1,849,900
Address: 35 New Dawn Irvine, CA 92620
Another sunny day in Californ-i-a
I’m sure back home they’d love to see it
But they don’t know that what you love is ripped away
Before you get a chance, before you get a chance to feel it
Everybody here is living life in fear of falling out of line
Tearing lives apart and breaking lots of hearts just to pass the time
And the eyes get red in the back of your head, this place will make you blind
Put it all behind me and I’ll be just fine
Another sunny day beneath this cloudless sky
Sometimes I wish that it would rain here
And wash away the west coast dreaming from my eyes
There’s nothing real for them to see here
Back Home — Yellowcard (thank you, badcandy, for the song suggestion)
Prices like this tell me we are NOT at the bottom.
Asking Price: $1,849,900
Income Requirement: $462,475
Downpayment Needed: $369,980
Purchase Price: $1,360,000
Purchase Date: 10/30/2003
Address: 35 New Dawn Irvine, CA 92620
| Beds: | 4 |
| Baths: | 5 |
| Sq. Ft.: | 4,557 |
| $/Sq. Ft.: | $406 |
| Lot Size: | 9,700
Sq. Ft. |
| Property Type: | Single Family Residence |
| Style: | English |
| Stories: | 2 |
| View: | Has View |
| Year Built: | 1998 |
| Community: | Northwood |
| County: | Orange |
| MLS#: | S586001 |
| Source: | SoCalMLS |
| Status: | Active |
| On Redfin: | 3 days |
ROSEGATE.4BD+BONUS+DEN+LOFT,wrought-iron gate dome leads to a secluded
passageway to front entrance. W/a spectacularly gorgeous vaulted
ceiling on the main level,imported italy Rossaila marble flooring leads
the way to the spacious formal living room with fireplace featuring
dining room walls w/ french doors, which opens up to a romantic
courtyard.*Guest room w/bthroom include glass shower stall and
independent guest bthroom.*Office room(features entertaining surround
system for theater)w/closet.Family room w/ built in fireplace and
BAHAMAS light ceiling fan.Kitchen has centered huge granite island with
viking 6 grill and bright breakfast nook space with new mahogany
blinded lovely windows. Roman arch master bedroom w/ surrounded pecan
blinded windows and Crema Marfil marble floors serene master bthroom
along w/marble wall frameless glass shower stall and perfectly fits for
dual mirror doors,sunset View Master.
bthroom? Why would someone consistently misspell a word by omitting a vowel? It isn’t any shorter, so it doesn’t function as an abbreviation. Does a realtor description require random, senseless misspellings?
italy Rossaila marble… Crema Marfil marble… Somebody knows way too much about marble.
73 New Dawn seems to be the current competition at $1.69M…and is “motivated” and “flexible as a yoga master”
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/73-New-Dawn-92620/home/4790546
Latest sales comp is 71 New Dawn which went for $1.535
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/71-New-Dawn-92620/home/4790545
I could see 35 New Dawn possibly pulling in 1.5M…for now.
And FWIW…New Dawn sounds like a damn dishwashing detergent.
Who knows about shadow supply? The shadow knows…
http://www.moneyshow.com/video/jim_jubak_video.asp?wid=4293
Good luck to the sellers. $1.85 million and no pool? And does it come with the suit of armor, or would I have to bring my own?
I am shocked that they want this crazy price and it is on just a bit more than 1/5th of an acre. The owners went crazy decorating the interior. They turned this into a mini-mansion. Now they want 2 million for this place?!
Is it too much to ask for a simple grammar and spell check for a 2 million dollar sale?
Count your blessings, at least they took down the Christmas lights. I am sure the neighbors appreciate that.
I don’t see any reason why you would need your own pool in Irvine unless you live in one of the tracts where the neighborhood swim team takes over the community pool in the summer.
Perhaps because $1,849,900 and “community pool” don’t seem to go well together.
Besides, if you lived in a home that expensive would you want your children swimming in the same pool as children of owners of lowly sub-million dollar homes? That’s how you get “cooties”.
;^)
There’s a no-shit suit of armor in this place?
That thing needs a KFC bucket fo sho
I am guessing that the KFC bucket is an inside joke.
What does it mean?
AZDavidphx likes to create photoshop images with KFC in it:
http://www.crackthecode.us/images/kfc_check.jpg
http://www.crackthecode.us/images/Enough_Granite.jpg
There are more….
Check out his tribute threads (1)
Check out his tribute threads (2)
The kitchen layout is wrong, the triangle is broken.
Also, it’s not a real fancy fridge. It looks to be only 3 feet wide.
I got a four foot wide one… but then I live in TR and wee to entertain, dig?
Besides, KFC is so Santa Ana…
As far as the whole house is concernet…. this is the very definition of a McMansion. Walk around these places and you see waste space everywhere.
You wee to entertain? I’m not sure I want to come to one of your parties. ;-P
Thanks for the explanation.
His work is interesting. Also, thanks for the links to the tribute threads. His work is pretty funny.
But…WHERE.IS.HE.NOW???
Last I remember he got in a flame war with some troll and we never saw either of them again.
What a freakin’ waste…
Dave being the troll IMO.
The prices in Rosegate may still be WTF, but there’s a whole bunch of people in the neighborhood who still can’t afford their current mortgage payment.
Can the Obama Plan be expanded to bail these home-debtors out too:
Gardenia, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$678,744 3 bed 1 bath
“This is a Notice of Foreclosure Sale property and will go through an Auction process. The distressed owner was unable to find a promising buyer to …”
75 Trailwood, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$1,040,000 0 bed 0 bath
“This property is a Pre-Foreclosure. The homeowner has missed at least one payment and may be willing to sell this home at an attractive price, in order …”
1 Alba W, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$600,000 4 bed 2.5 bath
“This property is a Pre-Foreclosure. The homeowner has missed at least one payment and may be willing to sell this home at an attractive price, in order …”
10 Foxcrest, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$810,000 0 bed 0 bath
“This property is up for Auction. The preforeclosure phase has ended and the lender seeks to recapture its losses by auctioning the property in a public …”
9 Blue Spruce, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$999,999 0 bed 0 bath
“This property is a Pre-Foreclosure. The homeowner has missed at least one payment and may be willing to sell this home at an attractive price, in order …”
7 Castillo, Irvine, CA? – more info »
$650,000 4 bed 2.5 bath
“This property is a Pre-Foreclosure. The homeowner has missed at least one payment and may be willing to sell this home at an attractive price, in order …”
There’s really no solution for these home-debtors. They can’t refinance because they can’t afford the payment for a fully amortized loan. Many of them just stopped making payments and they’re playing the delay game. But the clock is on … the banks cannot afford for all these home-debtors to live rent/mortgage free for too much longer … even with the government back stopping them.
We’re facing a calamity.
I posted this yesterday, but to answer your question it might actually help folks like this the most… The basic guideline is (if eligible) PROVE your current income and the lender must agree to take the payment down to 31% dti or less. That could mean slashing a $5000 payment to $2500 (real example!).
Now that we are following the Obama plan agressively, we’re seeing some interesting results – due to this silly government “one-size-fits-all” formula:
– some folks (who may not need it or deserve it) will see huge 50% payment reductions.
– others that may need more help will see only small ($100) payment reductions. Like someone (not likely In CA) who has a small mortgage but is living on disability with no car, etc…
– most interestingly, some will fail the complex test which decides if it’s better to mod or foreclose (if the lender would save more by foreclosing than modifying, then you don’t get a mod*)
We’ve lost the ability to view the situation subjectively and make a different decision…
* IF YOU HAVE EQUITY, pay attention here… Why would the lender lower your rate and collect less over the years when they can “make” money through FC!!? Most anyone with equity (even if you’ve fallen behind, say to job loss), will fail the new/required net present value test and will be told to sell.
I have equity, lots of. I have a nice 30 year mortgage at 5.25% percent that is well below 12% of my income.
That is, we can afford our house.
As far as I’m concerned, if ANYONE lowers the payment for these clowns then I’ll be burning the phone and email lines to every politician you can imagine and for the first time in my life I will actively get involved in the political process to make sure they all get thrown out of office.
The only way I can see lowering such payments is IF the bank takes over ownership of the house. That is, if their payment goes to 2700 from 5000 then the bank should lay claim to whatever ownership/equity they just quit claimed to.
The way I see it, I don’t want to see prices drop but I don’t want jerks to live in 1,400,000 houses for 3000/month.
Truth be known, I don’t think such will fly. If they allow this to happen then you will see quite a few people (a majority of americans) rebel and raise a stink that the Gov will have to back out.\
It’s called a “moral hazard”, I believe.
Le me clarify.
By living in 1,400,000 houses for 3000/month I mean these jerks who put almost nothing down and gambled with exotic mortgages.
I have no issue with someone who’s lived in their house for quite a long time and benefited from the appreciation, someone who inherited or someone who put a very large down payment.
Those are responsible owners.
The don’t need the banks to help them.
“As far as I’m concerned, if ANYONE lowers the payment for these clowns then I’ll be burning the phone and email lines to every politician you can imagine and for the first time in my life…”
You better get on the phone, tonye, because this is already happening all around you.
Would you clarify that?
When the loans get modified, what exactly are the new terms?
Do the banks lower the rate to 1%, making the terms 50 years or putting in some future liens?
Or, are the banks just lowering the mortgage proper? If so, are there tax implications?
OK, tonye, are you sitting down?
I’m not sharing this to rile you up, but this is a god’s-honest true example. We denied this borrower’s original request, then he applied again under the Obama Plan and we had to approve it. I’m rounding things to avoid spelling-out someone’s actual loans terms here:
Borrower is self-employed and has a $500,000 loan at about 9%, where the total payment with taxes/ins is about $5000. Borrower was “current” until March, when he applied for a mod. It is extremely difficult (impossible?) to determine income of most “self-employed” borrowers, but he claimed he could no longer afford it, and stopped making payments while we processed his request. I denied the request because there were THOUSANDS of dollars in other debt (autos, timeshares, credit cards) that were also “current”, so I didn’t believe him.
Borrower reapplied under the Obama plan claiming only $9000 in monthly income. Because he is otherwise eligible, we must offer him a payment at 31% (PITI/HOA), so we had to reduce the rate to 2%, extending the term to 480 months. This makes his new payment (PITI) about $2500.
The 2% rate is fixed for 5 years, after which time it will increase one percent per year each year until it reaches today’s FreddieMac market rate of 5.14%.
Therefore, he’ll enjoy the 2% rate for 5 years, and 8 years from now, he’ll have a final 5.14% fixed rate.
By the way, if he makes his payments on time, Obama will send up to $1000 per year to pay down his principal for him as an added incentive… there are no tax consequences that I know of, except he’ll have a lot less interest to write-off.
Crazy, yes?
Thanks
Other than becoming a 40 year loan… (how much more principal will he owe), did the overall mortgage amount get modde’d?
Does he still owe the original amount?
If that’s the case then he has absolutely no equity in the house, right?
I’m going to cut and paste your post and send it to Feinstein and Boxer….
Hope you don’t mind.
Tonye,
I’d prefer if you use that example as anecdotal evidence and paraphrase… Rather than cut & paste what I wrote.
I would never give out enough information to actually identify any particular loan, but there’s a lot of detail in that post.
My point in including the detail was twofold:
1. It seems some folks will get incredibly lucrative deals from Obamas mod plan, while other hard-working folks (like you?) may not even be eligible.
2. It is very hard to analyze these things accurately (how do we know his income was really cut in half? How do we know his wife doesn’t also work and there is additional HH income. How do we know if he has $100k in some account and there’s really no hardship here?)
big government programs are typically filled with loopholes and unintended consequnces. I guess that was my point.
OK, I can deal with that….
My other questions still stand:
(1) Other than becoming a 40 year loan… (how much more principal will he owe), did the overall mortgage amount get modde’d?
(2) Does he still owe the original amount?
(3) If that’s the case then he has absolutely no equity in the house, right?
Thanks
1. The balance, in this case, actually increases (the past due payments are added to the loan balance to bring him current).
2. He still owes the original amount. There is NO principal reduction on any loans at all that we service.**
3. I don’t really recall, but he must not have equity or the 2% rate probably wouldn’t have passed the net-present-value test***
** there are going to be cases, under the Obama plan, of principal DEFERMENT, but this is not to be confused with principal reduction. In some cases, if the 2% rate and 40 year term does not sufficiently reduce the payment, we will be able to base the payment on a lessor principal balance, but the remaining principal (not factored in the payment) is STILL there and due upon refi, sale, maturity, etc.
*** net-present-value is a complex formula to decide if the investor will make more (over time) by modifying the rate/term than by just liquidating now. If your modified terms don’t pass the NPV, the lender does not have to offer a mod. That’s why I think those with equity will fail the test for mod, but I haven’t run enough scenarios to be sure, yet…
Damn…. I missed the boat.
I should have refi’d to the hilt. Sent the money to Canada or Mejico.
Today I could have refi’d into a nice 40 year with a low, LOW rate.
Hell, it sounds like those folks are becoming long term renters with rent control like (actually fixed rent) for life.
Shoot. I got screwed again for being honest.
Modguy, thanks for these details from the trenches — definitely helps a lot to figure out what’s going on with this stuff.
The 4 largest banks have roughly $2.7T in deposits. What does that cost them, maybe 1-2% in interest costs? If you have half your loans that those deposits fund performing at 5%, you would still be interest cash-flow positive. Why banks complained about mark-to-market was that it was the marks that were causing their losses, not losses on interest from non-payment. As long as rates are low enough, and m-t-m is not enforced, then banks are in no rush to recognize their losses.
Banks are betting they can earn their way out of the crisis. I think that will be hard. Refinancing will fall off dramatically as nearly everyone will have refi’d into 30y fixed in the low 5’s high 4’s. The fed will have to raise rates and stop buying mbs’s There will be a point at the fed funds rate where banks cease to be profitable at that point we will see a big player fall. The banks want to maximize the time in ZIRP to hopefully climb out of their holes.
Rates near 0 = no bank rush to foreclose & recognize losses.
Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. When a loan goes bad, you don’t just lose the interest income. The bank typically loses part of the principal. If the loan is unsecured, or the bank made a home equity loan, they may lose all of the principal.
Thus, if half of your portfolio is in default, you might be losing 20-50% of the value of those loans. This has been the typical range for recent FDIC takeovers, losses of 20-50% of their book value.
Borrowing short and lending long has been one of the primary ways banks make money for many decades. It is also one of their primary risks.
While a fairly responsible bank might earn its way out, most banks who did substantial negative amortization loans, low doc, no doc, stated assets, home equity loans, or second mortgages, won’t earn their way out. For the stupid and/or irresponsible banks, they have several goals: 1. Refi and let someone else deal with the problem. 2. Reinflate the bubble. 3. Get someone else to buy their loans. 4. Stay in denial long enough to get a new job before their employer implodes. 5. Be bought out by a company with actual money. 6. Have the FDIC take them over without much job loss, hopefully after they have sold their company stock.
I am not sure what you mean by “The 4 largest banks have roughly $2.7T in deposits. What does that cost them, maybe 1-2% in interest costs?”, but if you are referring to the money the banks have on deposit with Fed, Bernanke started paying them interest on reserves, about one quarter percent more than it cost them to borrow those funds from the Fed.
I will gladly check everyone’s MLS listing for grammatical errors and spelling mistakes before they are submitted – surely in each office there is one person who can spell – MY PET PEEVE!
You would think after 2 1/2 years of us making fun of them that rank-and-file realtors would start caring about spelling. Nope. Perhaps the MLS will put in a spell checker someday. I am not holding my breath.
Probably a majority of Irvine realtors have English as a second language. I don’t offer this as an excuse, just a possible relevant fact.
Have we stupefied or liquidated the profession to such a level that obvious errors are now overlooked as “typos” or “oversights”.
If your job is to describe homes to potential buyers all over the world, you better take good photos, and you better make sure your spelling is correct. These are the two most important aspects of the initial stage of the eventual transaction.
IR,
I know you’ve said you’re over some of the HELOC abuse, but have you ever profiled this property, below? Just saw this in the OCR as a pending trustee sale… Look at the “last sale price” vs. “amount owed”. These people are equity bandits!
9 Blue Spruce, Northwood
Amount owed: $1,065,984.72
Last sale: November 1996, $330,000
Auction date & time: Sept. 16 at 10 a.m.
Location: In front of the flagpoles at Placentia Civic Center, 401-411 E. Chapman Ave.
Trustee sale #: 20099070810810
crazy!!
OMG! Over $700,000 in HELOC abuse!
I don’t think that property was ever for sale, or I would have profiled it.
I wonder how many other properties are out there like this one that spent their equity buy never bothered to try to sell?
I wonder if fear of the IHB has stopped any of them from listing?
“I wonder if fear of the IHB has stopped any of them from listing? ”
bursting out laughing. Are you serious? What’s your max traffic? Given that probably 30-40% of your readers are not from CA, how does your max traffic compare to the population of Irvine, and surrounding areas? If the realtors themselves haven’t taken enough note of your site to stop mis-spellings, I seriously doubt there could be more than 1% of potential sellers who dare to face reality enough that they’ve searched the internet and found your site. (Other than those who had been looking to sell and buy back in later).
I know the feeling though. I had a brief worry that my talking about the nieghborhood I’m looking to buy in was causally connected to this summer’s buying frenzy there (as opposed to a bunch of buyers seeing the same positives that I do).
I don’t think you need to laugh in IR’s face. He just said he wondered if “any of them” had avoided listing due to IHB ridicule, not that he thought that lots of people had.
Technical question. Could/does amount owed at such sales include things like defaulted property taxes, or income tax liens.
Although I am not wild about the choice of tile, from the pictures that appears to be a beautiful home. I like it 10x better than the houses in Turtle Ridge and Quail Hill that are selling for a similar price. The only real negative for me is that the house is probably too big, but it’s nice to see a bigger sized lot.
I agree that “bthroom” is a senseless abbreviation. I had a high school civics teacher who shortened “Utah” to “Uta.” and thirty years later it still chafes me.
Is everybody this rich in Irvine? All the homes around this one is 1.5M and over. I am not sure if you can get this rich by doing a normal job, unless you are a business owner or you have inherited boat load of money.
We do a lot of analysis of homes. I think we should start doing research on the owners are see what actually they do to afford such kick ass high flying places.
not everyone in Irvine lives in a 4500 sqft home. I’m just guessing off the top of my head, but I would say that the average for most new housing (condos) is 1700 sqft and that’s what the majority of people are buying and they’re probably paying around $650,000 (again just a wild guess).
I’m surprised nobody commented on how this house is backed to Yale. Yale isn’t Culver or Irvine Blvd., but it is quite noticeable. Maybe that’s why it’s only $1.85M 🙂
Yale is a pretty quiet little street that far out. On that same block, it actually dead-ends into Meadowood Park and then briefly re-starts on the other side of the park as “Yale Court” before hitting Portola. Because of all that disruption, it’s not much of a thoroughfare.
-Darth
On the other hand, I found the “Has View” feature amusing. View of what? The other side of the street?
-Darth
I have a question about a foreclosure.
After this house in North Carolina went into foreclosure, Fannie Mae transfered the deed to a small company “Buddha LLC” for $1. In the deed, Fannie Mae stipulated that Buddha couldn’t sell the house for more than $162K for 3 months. I read that as saying that after 3 months, Buddha can sell it for whatever they want.
What’s going on here? Why would Fannie Mae just give away a property?
Here is the deed transferring the title.
Sweetheart deals are nothing new. Wait until the govt takes property at market rates (their market rates) and gives the property to their friend for development. The 1990’s were filled the land taking and selling of govt. property for peanuts. All legal say the supreme court. The locals usually target the lower income or churches for the takings, because other govt property such as parks and business especially utilities have special legal protection and deeper pockets.
At least your cited case didn’t take one’s property. It just stuck the taxpayer with the bill.
Hi,
I am not sure if I should buy a Condo or Home.
Looking for help.
Thank you.
Max,
It depends on what you want out of your home. Condos save you a lot of bother in external maintenance, and are often geared to singles or childless professionals in terms of limited cooking and entertainment space. Single family homes give you more space and privacy, and perhaps less neighbor noise (depending on location and orientation), but you’ve got to do external maintenance and pay for things like building and fire insurance, water, sewage and trash pick-up, by yourself.
Financial considerations are another dimension, but I won’t go into them here.
Hope this helps…..
Speaking of spell & grammar check, there is a good program Grammar Check Anywhere (SpellCheckAnywhere.Net) it adds spell & grammar check to all programs.
There is no “borderline,” Luke.
Hi Max,
I am a Realtor from Iowa City. I have information that you should read about the Pros & Cons of buying a Condo vs. Home.
Please let me know if this helps.
Cheers,
Michael Mceleney