Whip It — Devo
When a prop'ty comes along You must flip it
Before the home sits out too long You must flip it
When somethings going wrong You must flip it
When you buy as a flipper, you are a fool. Your task is to find someone more foolish than yourself to buy you out before prices crash. There are bagholders for every price crash. Someone has to own the asset while it declines in value. The trick to flipping is not to be that someone.
Speculative flipping only works when prices are rising. There are a few people who manage to make a few bucks buying at foreclosure auctions and quickly selling before the declining prices take them underwater, but these people are the exception rather than the rule. Most people who made money flipping during the bubble simply bought property, waited for a while, then sold it to some greater fool. That method does not work when prices are falling.
Despite the total collapse of pricing at the bottom of the market and the obvious signs of an impending market implosion, some people chose to buy real estate as speculative flips in recent years. I have already profiled a couple who have changed their minds and are trying to get out, but it is the ones who actually price the property to make a profit I find most interesting. They really believe there is someone out there who is even more stupid than they are.
Today's featured property is one such flipper. I know the penthouse is supposed to be nice, but is the premium really $900,000 or worse yet $1,575,000? Should people really pay $1,000/SF when properties in the same building are selling for less than $400/SF?
Asking Price: $1,950,000
Income Requirement: $487,500
Downpayment Needed: $390,000
Monthly Equity Burn: $16,250
Purchase Price: $1,823,000
Purchase Date: 8/3/2007
Address: 8153 Scholarship, Irvine, CA 92612
| Beds: | 2 |
| Baths: | 3 |
| Sq. Ft.: | 1,950 |
| $/Sq. Ft.: | $1,000 |
| Lot Size: | – |
| Property Type: | Condominium |
| Style: | Contemporary/Modern |
| Year Built: | 2007 |
| Stories: | 2 |
| Floor: | 15 |
| View: | Canyon, City Lights, City, Golf Course, Hills, Lake, Mountain, Panoramic, Resevoir, Trees/Woods, Has View |
| Area: | Airport Area |
| County: | Orange |
| MLS#: | S558863 |
| Source: | SoCalMLS |
| Status: | Active |
| On Redfin: | 5 days |
An urban lifestyle second to none? LOL! This is Irvine, not New York.
How does one upgrade a penthouse? Do they have a downscale version of a penthouse?
Perhaps the high end is immune. Perhaps that is a $2,000,000 view and a $2,000,000 kitchen. Perhaps this seller will find that unique buyer who recognizes the special attributes of this property. Perhaps some savvy foreign investor will come in and pay cash for the place. Perhaps the buyer at $2,000,000 will find someone willing to pay $2,500,000 in a couple of years.
When does it end?
It may end right now with this bagholder.
Crack that whip
Give the past the slip
Step on a crack
Break your mommas back
When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sits out too long
You must whip it
When somethings going wrong
You must whip it
Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
Its not too late
To whip it
Whip it good
Whip It — Devo
The owners had better enjoy the view and the great urban Irvine living to get their money’s worth. In addition to the $1.8 million paid, the monthly costs of this place is at least $2500-$3000/month just for fees and taxes.
Or, is there still a fool foolish enough (and most likely with some form of easy money)to take this gem from their hands?
Yes, and don’t you love all the cultural, entertainment and vibratn downtown urban amenities that are MISSING from this urban/loft cummunity… better off buying a similar place in downtown San Diego w/ bay views for 1/3 the price of this disaster.
IR:
Are these numbers correct?
Asking Price: $1,950,000
Income Requirement: $131,250
Downpayment Needed: $105,000
Monthly Equity Burn: $4,375
Nope, I have fixed them. Thanks for pointing it out.
Oh, but it has a PLasma HD TV. Surely that novelty deserves some premium.
Just got a 46″ 1080P Plasma at Costco for…
$949
Some premium.
You could get this penthouse without the Plasma HD TV premium for $1,949,000
don’t get greedy, you don’t want to insult the seller.
Don’t forget the countertop with backsplash!!
Nice job on the song parody, IR.
Unbelievable that there was someone willing to pay close to $2M for a 2/2.5 apartment in a highrise.
I’d like to back up a couple days to the post about government paternalism. The missing theme in the post and the comments is the actions of politicians. Granted, we the people vote for politicians and must take ultimate responsibility. But these people are meant to act as “representatives” of our best interests. Yet there have been very few in congress (on either side of the aisle) willing to stand up and tell banks and bubble buyers that they don’t deserve a bail out and it’s not in the long-term interests of the country. Almost no one is saying, “tear the band-aid off quickly.”
Even after everything that has happened, the entire country seems to still think we can get away with this without facing the music. When does the instant gratification stop and the personal responsibility begin? Or is personal responsibility part of the old paradigm.
With politicians like these, who needs enemies? I guess the old saying is right – the people get the government they deserve.
“Even after everything that has happened, the entire country seems to still think we can get away with this without facing the music.”
This is the attitude I find most interesting. I blame this on the “Greenspan Put.” In the past 30 years, every time we have had a problem in the economy, we have been able to avoid facing the music. People have come to believe that they will never have to.
For better or worse, most of the time the economy is under the control of the FED. It is when the economy gets out of control that the FED has to resort to drastic measures to regain it. It is during these times when we have the greatest financial hardships.
The road the FED must travel has two ditches. On one side is inflation, and on the other deflation. In the late 1970s, the economy fell into the inflation ditch, and the FED had to raise interest rates dramatically to regain control. The result was a horrible recession. Now, the economy has fallen into the deflation ditch, and the FED really doesn’t know what to do to get out of it. At least the inflation ditch can be navigated by raising interest rates. Bernanke believes he knows the way out of the deflation ditch. Let’s hope he is right because the last time we were in it was during the Great Depression.
That goes to show you we are still in the denial phase. We still have a LONG way to go.
If we are still in denial (agree), we will be getting into anger probably later this year. Will be interesting to see where, exactly, the anger will be aimed. I think people who are walking away should thing again as i think the silent majority of responsible homeowners hasn’t yet seen the full impact. Plus there could be some regional differences ie I’m in the Mid Atlantic states and wonder why I’m getting taxed to help flippers like todays post or the moronic bank than I’m sure lent 100% of the purchase price in 2007.
I think I’m at the anger stage, as well as several people I know. Being young professional renters starting out, it is infuriating that a bunch of greedy people came before us and now we are in a position where we fear being laid off from jobs and losing everything we’ve worked so hard for. The young people are truly paying the price for this mess and I imagine we will be for a while.
young people are not greedy???
everything you have worked so hard for???
Anger stage? That’s cute. You should come join
me in the Armed Revolution stage. I thought I
would calm down after yesterday’s post, let me
check… nope I’m still livid. Maybe I should
just take a break and go watch my favorite movie
Falling Down.
Moving –
Yes, some young people are greedy. However, we are not the ones who created this massive crisis. Instead, we will be paying for it.
And just because people are young doesn’t mean they haven’t worked very hard to get where they are. Your post is patronizing. If you think it is easy for young people to complete and succeed in graduate school (which, let’s face it, is practically a requirement for a decent job these days), you are very wrong. I’m not talking about the kids that skate by with C averages. Those of use who spent every weekend studying for years only to get jobs requiring us to be on call at all hours with an electronic leash do work very hard. And now, thanks to some people’s actions that we had no control over, we worry about losing everything we’ve worked for. Housing may be cheaper if I want to buy something, but people in many industries would be complete fools to commit to a mortgage with the amount of uncertainty facing them.
We may not have worked for 50 years, but that doesn’t mean what we have done is not hard work. Your attitude is very different from what I normally hear from baby boomers, which is usually that they admit they never would have been able to get into the same college they went to if the standards were as high as they are now and that they never would want to take the huge risks we have to take to pay for our educations.
Your post also assumes or at least indicates that I was saying we have worked harder than some other group of people. I did not say that. If you feel like you have worked harder than most young people, you probably have. But, that does not mean that we have not worked hard as well.
Wow, you are really bitter for such a young person. We all have to pay our dues with crap jobs when we start out – it’s called “working your way up the ladder”. I never felt “entitled” to any sort of job when I graduated from college – I was glad to get my foot in the door.
That’s not the point. We are in the “anger” phase due to the fact that we might lose these “crap” jobs simply because of this mess and not because we don’t do the work.
I and my colleagues just want a chance to work our way up the ladder.
I’m not sure what exactly the definition of “young people” being thrown around here is — but I can say that from the perspective of a 37 years old with about 13 years professional experience at a big 4 accounting firm under my belt, I am amazed by what I see out of our recent classes of “young” campus hires. The sense of entitlement is unreal. We can hardly find a “young” person off campus or in the first couple of years of their career who believes they have to work hard to get ahead — or even learn the job. Who is going to step up when my generation X nears retirement if they don’t focus now? My money is on India starting to take on more professional-level jobs if this current group does not light a fire under themselves.
I just said to someone yesterday “It seems like all our campus hires this year believe they get paid to show up at work, and if they do something they want a little extra”.
The bottom line is that everyone who is angry needs to write their Congressman and Senators.
Print out the infuriating profiles that IR publishes and mail them to the representatives expressing your feelings about all of this.
And don’t whine “It won’t make a difference…” That is lazy talk. When representatives start getting a lot of correspondences from the otherwise “silent majority”, they know they’ve got problems.
That’s what I’m saying…
I guess the young people don’t want the typical big 4 seventy/eighty hour work week anymore. And they will get away with it (even if the salary might be a bit lower) since that is the common attitude of the whole generation – big 4 will have to change the work/life balance or the partners will do the number crunching themselves :-).There is more to life than work and the sooner big 4 gets this new attitude the easier the transition to this new work culture will be for the old and the new employees.
Pete – I don’t work in that field, but I do notice a similar divide between the generations in mine as well. There seems to be an attitude among people around 35 and younger that there is much more to life than money and work. This can be perceived as laziness or entitlement by those that don’t share the same view, but it is an important point that the people who want more “life” in their life do not expect to be compensated equally to those who are willing to make greater sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what happens with this.
the decision is much easier for the partners than you think… we move the jobs overseas where people are willing to work harder.
Believe me I personally KNOW exactly how hard graduate school is – lots and lots of graduate school.
But graduate school is not as hard as working for years breaking down your body in a manufacturing plant for minimum wage to barely support your family – then to find out the little bit you were able to save each month for retirement is half gone – NOW THAT IS WORKING HARD.
I also know how it was to teach college classes to these ‘young people’ you are talking about and the sense of entitlement and expectations that it should be easy were astounding to me and I wasn’t much older than the kids I was teaching.
Now, I certainly don’t believe that all young people are like that and I certainly could accept that you yourself may have worked very hard and don’t deserve this situation. I can’t say I am too happy about the fact that my chidren are going to be paying for all this stuff – but I am also not very happy that I am paying for it either.
Sorry nobody owes you anything. It doesn’t matter if you went to graduate school or not. Life is about getting by on your own wits, not relying on a piece of paper to do it for you. I guess they don’t teach you that in grad school do they?
This was my competitive advantage when I entered a corporate environment: work hard, network and don’t project a sense of entitlement. CK’s comments are spot on.
The generations younger than the baby boomers have every right to be irate and bitter. Under boomer leadership this country ran up a huge tab and when the bill ultimately comes due, the boomers will be voting as a group to pass this off to younger generations. Lucky for anyone in those younger generations, you can look forward to living in the legacy of the baby boomers: higher taxes to pay for the huge deficit we now face and the Social Security and Medicare expenses the boomer generation is going to create.
If you are of the baby boom generation, stop whining. The mess you left behind dwarfs whatever 401k loss or housing related losses you have recently experienced. If you were too dumb to benefit when your peers were then you are in exactly the position you deserve. It is unfortunate that younger folks are starting out with a yoke of your irresponsibility around their necks.
True….with all this outsourcing of jobs going on, it’s getting harder and harder for young people to work their way up. If you outsource the bottom few rungs of the career ladder to India, then how can workers even have a chance at gaining job experience? After all, doesn’t everyone (with the exception of the well-connected) start at entry-level? Then a few years from now, employers will be wringing their hands and lamenting about how “Americans aren’t qualified for high-level jobs” and then getting HB1 visas to import these same Indians who have job experience because they were given it!
On another note— when I started working, I even held down a part-time retail job at night/weekends to make ends meet. Well, good luck trying to do that these days; retailers aren’t even hiring. You’d be surprised at how many people think inability to find work = unwillingness to work. I’m not that young anymore, but I’m still bitter at this massive interpretation of my work abilities.
I have passed the denial and anger stages. I’m now at the stage of buying up undervalued bonds on which sellers have wildly overestimated the chance of default.
Which bonds in particular…
Homebuilder bonds are a good buy right now. They yield 22% at this point. If the builders don’t go under, these bonds will rally.
While I probably shouldn’t name names, here are some very good factors:
1. A lot of cash (like several years worth of operating capital), especially at a company which has ~BBB ratings.
2. Shorter bonds from companies whose future isn’t very clear, but where you just can’t figure out how they could implode before the bond matures. If they really couldn’t run out of money in 10 months, and that’s the amount of time left on the bond you want to buy, you pretty much have your answer.
3. Bad news which doesn’t actually apply to the bonds you are looking at. I have seen several where due to M&A and spinoff, the name on the bonds is not the name of the party now responsible for paying them off. If the people who have to pay off the bonds are in much better shape that the original issuer, pay close attention.
4. Municipal bonds issued by an entity that is doing just fine, but happens to have a similar name to someone in trouble. Remember that it is very common to have a city, county, school district, and transportation district which all contain the same name. They are likely separate credits with separate credit risk.
Some of them still have a lot of cash, too.
the probability any bond yielding 22% will rally is low, and that’s being kind…. unless you think you are smartier than everyone else.
there might be some corporate bonds worth while right now, but i say cash is still the best place to be.
“some of them have a lot of cash, too”
based on what, their balance sheet, good luck with that.
High rise living may be useful to the next owner; they’ll have a place to jump from once they realize they’ve been had.
It’s that “high rise living” which provides that STUNNING view of industrial rooftops and the 405 freeway. If gazing at someone’s 20-year old air conditioners isn’t luxury living, I don’t know what is!
I remember reading about this development on another blog where somebody had gotten a hold of the intranet web pages where building mgmt was bemoaning the fact that people kept ripping off the dvd players in the rec room and they kept having to shut off the water due to maintenance issues.
Seems like the $1150 a month rent on top of your $15k mortgage nut doesn’t get you a whole lot except for a great view of the 405.
Unless those two bedrooms are huge, my crappy apt looks as big as this place!
They’re not trying to make money, they’re trying to get out. After a 6% commission, if someone pays asking price, they only net 10k. Which won’t even cover their holding costs for a month given the mortgage, taxes and fees. It’s much more likely that they’re setting that 10k to kick-back to the buyer in closing cost assistance.
A lot of owners think that 6% price increase is their right, and that listing at that constitutes “breaking even” since they won’t see a penny of it.
Is that what two million dollar furniture looks like?
Yikes….
That’s exactly what I was thinking. My apartment looks nicer than this place. This is just a cheap apartment that happens to be at the top of a high rise building. The view is not that exciting either – a bunch of roofs to look at. Irvine is simply not the place for buildings like this. There should either be a decent skyline or an ocean view to look at and this has neither. Yuck.
Yes I agree. They are squeezed–if there was any hope of a profit or break-even they would have hired a stager to make it look like it might be worth 2 mil. It needs staging desperately.
Sadly, I think this might have been stagged… with Ikea furnishings…
2M for the “Irvine urban lifestyle.” Are you F’n kidding me. This is not Manhattan. For that amount of coin, there are so many better alternatives in OC.
As was mentioned, the taxes and HOA are a killer in themselves. Even paying 1M for this place is too much in my book.
Please stop the insanity!
This price seems way off the WTF scale. In prior posts of this type, commenters noted that sometimes these are divorce listings. That is someone is trying to argue the community assets are less but you need to list with no buyers to prove the point.
I hope the owner wasnt in socal during the Northridge quake. They’d think twice about being that high up in ANY building, let alone paying $2M to do so.
Anyone else think a nice FAT quake would really accelerate this housing decline?
A quake might help some too. Might clear some of the excess inventory in a flash.
Look at the Redfin page where it list comparable listings and recent sales. There are no condos listed under recent sales. I think that says it all.
ROTFL. Option ARM anyone?
I’m curious – this was bought for over $1.8 million in 2007, yet the taxable value on which the property tax was based in 2008 (according to Redfin) is $1.5 million. Anyone know why this might be the case?
the county assessor has been reducing 2008 property taxes for recently purchased properties, ‘to reflect market values’, proactively.
clearly, they are trying to stay ahead of all the impending appeals.
That is the only thing I could think of, but I didn’t think someone could get a reduction so close to the purchase date. Amazing, and it also shows how ridiculous it is that the seller is telling the county that this house is worth only $1.5 million for his/her taxes while simultaneously trying to sell it for close to $2 million….
The difference must lie in the surround sound and plasma TV 😉
I can’t believe someone paid nearly $2M for this place.
I don’t even know what else to say.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I’m sure they didn’t pay almost $2 million for it. I’ll bet an honest dollar that they financed over 90% of the purchase price.
I can’t agree that ALL flippers are fools and/or greedy (although the ones whom YOU highlight certainly are). SMART flippers help themselves and the housing economy — but smart flippers probably aren’t buying nearly as many properties these days, at least not in tumbling markets like Irvine.
$1,000/sqft is about how much Vegas properties are going for now.
What’s the HOA on this thing?
Homeowners Association Information (from listing)
* Dues #1: $1,124.00
That could almost be a mortgage in some of the less desirable (non-Irvine) parts of the country.
Phsssstttttt! That’s the sound of tea spraying all over my keyboard. I guess you are paying for privacy, because you will be living almost by yourself. Those buildings are mostly empty.
I think everyone here is failing to properly value all of the nightlife within walking distance to this place… The Daily Grill, The Melting Pot, Subway, Kaplan Learning Centers and an abortion clinic. Considering all of these things, this place is a steal. Come on, it’s not like they are making any more high rise condos in the middle of nowhere with sky-high HOAs!!!!!!!!!!!!
You failed to mention the FREE I-Shuttle that can take you all around during lunch time so you can scope out empty commercial real estate. I am kind of shocked a proper pub hasn’t opened anywhere in the Irvine CBD. DG and McCormicks is all you can do Irvine?
Abortion Clinic (Really?)
Irvine keeps out the clubs and pubs, but that is no problem?
What would this thing rent out for? I would guess $4000 per month. It’s a gussied up apartment.
Even with a 50% down payment, you would need to shell out almost 10K per month to own this thing if bought at the current WTF price.
We still have a ways to go…
Good post! May I add, “Studpid is as Stupid does” and then from the 15th floor, Jump Forest, Jump!
I have to agree with Mel, younger people are in a bad position compared to Boomers. Their education expenses are way out of proportion to their earning potential and their jobs keep going over seas. To top it all off, I can hardly believe this myself, America IMPORTS young educated talent with the H1-B visa program while American citizens with the SAME education go unemployed. This is a representative goverment? Exactly who is getting represented?
The university system got much tougher in the 80’s because the hot vocational degrees started attracting ALL the talent. No more contented History and Astronomy majors, everybody had to go for a degree that landed INCOME immediately after graduation. The UC system no longer cares about educating students, they are FAR more concerned about weeding them out, and moving on to the next grant proposal.
Right now, new engineering graduates go without a single job offer, only a nursing degree still seems to guarantee a job upon graduation.
Pls don’t direct your anger on H1B. The quota is back to 65K now and it is not even lasting for a day (out of 1 year’s quota). To an extent, L1B is beig abused now and not H1B.
BTW, our company started URP (University Recruitment Program) and hired fresh BS/MS graduates here in bay area last year. I was shocked to see most (if not all) of them being from India. I hardly see any non-Asians taking up Engg at all. I hardly see non-Asian applicants either (in fact I don’t remember any that I interviewed). Hiring in general has stopped now everywhere, and that may be the actual reason for you or your friend not getting a job.
One should not be shocked that many of the engineering / computer science recruits come from Asia or have Asian backgrounds.
Have you seen the enrollments at Universities across the US? Almost all the science and engineering B.S. and M.S. programs and certainly the technical Ph D. programs are filled with non- Asians.
Marketing, journalism and acting are not appropriate B.S. degrees for the parents of 1st generation immigrants from Asia. Maybe a couple of generations later, but not now.
There is a problem with education visas. Foreign students are often only allowed to work in the US for lab assistant, teaching assistant, and similar jobs. Over time, universities adapted to this and started overworking and underpaying for these positions. US-born students take other higher paying or more interesting jobs while in school.
When I was at college, I made way more selling high end video equipment than the teaching assistants made.
Not true. I graduated in 2005 with a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I had not intended on finding a job right after college. Instead, my boyfriend, (Computer Science major) and I intended on traveling the world. We had planned on getting real jobs after the money ran out.
But 4 months before I graduated, recruiters were calling me! I wasn’t even soliciting them. From this, a really sweet high paying job fell out of the sky and into my lap. It was too good to pass up so I accepted it and we moved to San Diego.
Likewise, my boyfriend decided he didn’t want to work & got unemployment. He spent 6 months either at the gym, golfing and watching soaps. Miraculously, when the checks stopped coming in, he found a great job 2 weeks later.
My brother, also a mechanical engr major just graduated this summer. He was a C student who took 7 years to get the 4 year degree. He also had a good paying job waiting for him at graduation.
The jobs are out there if you look hard enough. Also, in case you’re wondering: I’m white, and so is my boyfriend and brother (duh).
Great story. Thanks for sharing. I’m part Asian but might have well as been white to the smart Asian guys that got me through my CS and EE classes.
Engineering is what any entering freshman should be majoring in to position themselves for future lucrative jobs. Accounting would be a practical second choice if they don’t want to work as hard.
Accounting is too easily outsourced! I know from experience, and I have a masters in economics and accounting. They high-level jobs are great, but you have to get there via the easily-outsourced entry and mid-level accounting jobs.
Great story, garbler, but I worked as a senior tech doing mostly PWB layout for 36 years until last April when I was laid off. (Oh, there’s someone doing my job alright, designing the same exact equipment for the same exact customer, problem is the guy doing the job is in Bangalore, India) The job market here (Austin, TX) is absolutely terrible these days, I’ve had a grand total of two interviews since then w/no prospect whatsoever of getting another tech job in my field.
I am really disappointed in this Penthouse/Apt. I would have expected at least 3 to 4k sq. feet for that kind of money along with the roof top.
They look just like the rest of the other lower levels so why would you pay for the top unless is was so much nicer?
They will be lucky to get half of their asking price. And again HOA out of control!!!!!!!
Before you purchase this unit you might want to look at some other options:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Coast/26-CORAL-REEF-92657/home/4749249
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Beach/813-Van-Dyke-Dr-92651/home/4894393
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Beach/1105-Summit-Dr-92651/home/4896579
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Beach/835-QUIVERA-92651/home/4898662
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Beach/2485-Juanita-Way-92651/home/4934435
I thoroughly enjoyed your sense of humor! Obviously this person doesn’t know a thing about real estate. A smart buyer would have never invested in property that in the end would be overpriced for the area. No matter how appealing the property may be..if the price doesn’t match the neighborhood you are pretty much out of luck. I say.. keep it simple. Do your research and be smart! Real estate investing doesn’t have to be only for the rich..successful investing is at anyone’s grasp.. Has anyone read “The Pizza Delivery Millionaire”??? Rick Vazquez who has 20 years experience wrote a seemingly perfect book on how to do it right the first time..
IR, Thanks for the post. We sold our 2000 sq ft 1950’s Palo Alto rancher in October for $1000 per sq ft. We were wondering what the income requirement for our buyer would be. Now we know. Yikes!
They had to put 35% down to get a loan. Yikes!
We were going to rent back for a couple of months but at $10000 a month it was a bit steep for our pocket book.
We have been hiding out at our cabin at Donner Lake waiting for the crash to hit Palo Alto.
Currently we are house sitting for friends in Belmont for a few weeks to try to warm up before returning to Truckee. We are really enjoying the spring in winter weather. It is going to be hard to transition back to cold and snow.
The wife is suffering from cabin fever at Donner so we may buy down in the Bay Area before the real bottom hits. That’s the breaks.
Price declines in our preferred area have fallen about 50K in the last couple of months but we need another 150K down before the prices will fit the budget.
Best to all of you.
when did you buy orignally and for how much?
dilbert dogbert–I think we could find a way for you to spend some of your $2 million Palo Alto money down here in Irvine. Tell your wife there’s no cabin fever in Orange County as long as you steer clear of Coto de Casa. We’ve got 80 degrees at the ocean today, driving PCH with the top down.
likely dilbert would quickly tire of the boorish South OC mentality. The Peninsula is a pretty intellectual place with redwood forests and great wineries and beaches. But the water was 53 degrees on Sunday so OC is definitely the place if you surf.
dafox and turtleridgerenter,
PA house purchased by wife back in mid 70s. I think the total was around 300K. Purchased from her dad in pieces over time. After all expenses, too complicated to explain, the net is modest for the area.
After all the trouble of moving out and relocating we want to limit ourselves to only one more move. We have lived in the mid pen area of SF for most of our lives and are very comfortable there. Once you know the timing and patterns of traffic it is easy to get around by car. Esp if you are retired and can organize your life around that timing and pattern. All our long time friends are nearby and the kids want to be able to return to the Palo Alto area so we will stay nearby. I did spend some time in SoCal in Torrance near the beach and found that Torrance is cooler than Palo Alto as we don’t get afternoon summer fog (June Gloom?). I don’t know about Irvine.
We will buy no matter what when we run out of Prop 13 time. We wish to remain tax aristocrats.
Best again to you all and esp IR and CR for educating and entertaining us.