This property went back to the bank for
$425,279. That is 26% off the peak. I foresee the 2002 price as its approximate value at the bottom:
Sales History
| Date | Price | Appreciation |
| Oct 10, 1988 | $58,500 |
|
| Nov 17, 1988 | $175,500 |
|
| Dec 31, 1991 | $186,000 |
|
| Feb 22, 2002 | $277,000 |
|
| Aug 08, 2006 | $577,000 |
|
| Apr 07, 2008 | $425,279 |
|
I’ll have a blue Christmas without you
I’ll be so blue just thinking about you
Decorations of red on a green Christmas tree
Wont be the same dear, if you’re not here with me
And when those blue snowflakes start falling
Thats when those blue memories start calling
You’llbe doin all right, with your Christmas of white
But Ill have a blue, blue blue blue Christmas
Blue Christmas — Elvis Presley
.
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Today’s listing is a portrait of a bagholder. This ugly property was purchased right at the peak in Mid-2006 with 100% financing. If this property was not purchased with 100% financing, the owners probably would have tried to hold on longer, but with the market tanking, and the payments burning a huge hole in their monthly budget, it is easier to just walk away…
Asking Price: $514,900
Income Requirement: $102,980
Downpayment Needed: $128,725
Purchase Price: $577,000
Purchase Date: 8/8/2006
Address: 5065 Balsawood, Irvine, CA 92612
First Mortgage $461,600
Second Morgage $115,400
Downpayment $0
Beds: 2
Baths: 2
Sq. Ft.: 1,185
$/Sq. Ft.: $435
Lot Size: 2,940 sq. ft.
Type: Single Family Residence
Style: Other
Year Built: 1974
Stories: One Level
Area: University Park
County: Orange
MLS#: P611279
Status: Active
On Redfin: 5 days
From Redfin, “Best value in the Terraces!!! Light, bright, and open single-level Terrace home. Newer paint and carpet. Newer Milgard dual-pane windows, with three skylights that flood warmth and sunlight into this charming home. Vaulted ceilings in living room and in master bedroom. Italian porcelain tile flooring throughout living room, family/kitchen area, and rear courtyard. Located on a cul-de-sac for added privacy but close to HOA pools and spas. Don’t miss out on this great opportunity.”
Nice of the realtor to provide the lovely pictures of the garage door and the front door.
Three exclamation points!!!
.
.
I wrote at length last week on the impact of 100% financing. Properties like this one are on the market because the owners are underwater and they have no money in the deal. We have seen the market is about 20% off the peak right now, particularly for the less desirable properties. I think it likely this price will have to drop another $50K-$75K to find a knife catcher. However, assuming the seller lender gets their asking price, the total loss on the property will be $67,614, assuming a 6% commission.
Just how common are 100% financing deals? Are there enough of these to really hurt the market?
According to Credit Suisse, more than 60% of loan originations in Southern California had piggy back loans. Subprime loans had an astounding 94% average loan-to-value ratio. Of more importance to Irvine’s market 55% of Alt-A Jumbo loans had piggy-back loans attached to them. If Irvine is supposed to be a move-up market and everyone is sitting on mountains of equity, why would anyone need a piggyback? Given the high transaction volumes of the bubble rally and the subsequent 20% decline in individual property prices we have demonstrated on this blog, one can speculate there are large numbers of underwater homeowners with loan-to-value ratios in excess of 100%. It is likely we will see a plethora of short sales in 2008.
Lovely house! Isn’t this a townhome? It looks like it’s attached in the second picture, and it says it has one common wall. Very nice.
—–
“If Irvine is supposed to be a move-up market and everyone is sitting on mountains of equity, why would anyone need a piggyback?”
Come now, IR, let’s not inject logic into an emotional discussion. My other favorite gem is “foreigners with mysterious sources of cash will pay anything to send their kids to Uni High”. That’s funny, when I sold my house in 2006 in TR, I *did* sell to a family from Taiwan. But they didn’t show up on a white horse with suitcases full of money to bail me out. They were really tough negotiators who knew where the market was going, and they knew had me over a barrel. They’re knifecatchers now, but they did get a 10% discount from asking.
Just because foreign money is *sometimes* stupid (e.g. the Japanese buying commercial property all over California in the late 80s) doesn’t mean it always will be.
Last time I was in Irvine, someone actually said that bit about Chinese and Uni High. I replied, if that is so, why is everything in TR just sitting? I got no answer on that.
Won’t Paulson’s “Hope” plan give these folks some hope?
I wonder, does the lack of interior photos indicate agent laziness, a nasty decor, or just no granite countertops?
That chart can be found at among a goldmine of data at http://www.recharts.com/reports/CSHB031207/CSHB031207.html
Check out Exh 26, Percentage of Properties With a LTV Greater Than 95%. LA is at 55%, Inland Empire 64%. Those are LTVs at time of purchase. 95% in mid-2006 =113% today.
MOST homes purchased in 2006 in LA, Riverside, San Bernardino, and San Diego are now underwater, even before any sales expense or inflated appraisals.
Flash Earth confirms it’s attached. Why no interior pictures? Also, interior cooling is “ceiling fan”.
You beat me to it, awgee. Next thing we know, there will be calls for “backup offers” and maybe even touching letters of why the bank should sell to you (or anyone) because everyone knows the Fed and Treasury have arrived on their white horses to give every distressed seller a million dollars…in “hope.” Btw, cnbc’s realty reporter said their site was flooded and almost crashed with emailers and bloggers against the bailout.
IR…great Elvis tune.
I love when HGTV’s Property Virgin and House Hunter shows announce that the new buyer was “lucky” enough to get 100% financing. Maybe some follow up on the foreclosures which are sure to follow would be interesting.
This place looks like the garden shack that you find behind homes on the east coast. A place to store the snow blower and riding lawn mower.
With all the news about housing problems hitting the main stream media now I wouldn’t be surprised if this place never sells. Maybe we are looking at a house that will be for sale indefinitely. I know what an infinity pool is…..so maybe this is the infinity house.
OC is such a shitty place to live. Yes, I’ve lived all over, and for the crap you have to tolerate, traffic, gangs, crowds, garbage, blight, it’s really an insult to have to pay such a high price to live here. Beaches? Gimme a break. I know almost no one who regularly goes to the beach. They don’t go to the beach so they don’t know how shitty the beach is unless you’re a surfer. Try fishing here and see if you can outfish the illegals who poach in volume. Try enjoying a nice swim. Once you get past the hoards at the parking lot and the hoards at the beach, you’ll be picking the potato chip packages, gum wrappers, cigarette butts and god-knows-what from your teeth and bathing suit. That, after you barf up the other urban runoff toxic sludge from your body. And I hope you have a good doctor for the mighty infection that may ensue. I dare anyone to go to the beach right now, after the brief rain we had. (Hint: bring your hazmat suit.) Remarkably I am one of the few people I know who regularly visits the beach, but everyone is always telling me that OC is so nice because of the beaches. Wha?
I tolerate this place because of the high salary, and for no other reason. The people are fake, the drivers are mean, and the sense of self-serving entitlement is at nosebleed levels. As soon as I tire of the job or that high salary goes away I’m outtahere, taking my family with me and OC can stink up the place without me. Thank God I rent and save my money so I can leave on a whim. Being stuck here against my will would be some form of Hell.
strange, last time I was down at Laguna (133 and 1, iirc) the beach was nice and probably swimmable if i wasn’t such a wuss and couldn’t fight past the waves.
no trash, as far as i remember, unless it was the random seaweed.
a beach further south closer to san juan capistrano also had no trash except those in their bins if i remember correctly.
maybe things are messier up in Seal and Huntington
I just love the porch light. It appears to be too tall and hits the ceiling, thus the need to leave it cockeyed. I see things like that and wonder what other shoddy workmanship is hidden about.
Zoiks, life is too short to be living in such misery just for a few extra dollars. It’s time to move on. I suggest you take a look at Detroit or Cleveland where your dollar will go far. Seriously, if you’re that miserable, move.
Zoiks the miserable blogger lived by the sea…Seriously, as said by Life is Too Short, don’t let the door hit you…have fun in your new paradise.
Blogs can be very therapeutic for some people.
Bought for $277,000 in 2002 sold for $577,000 in 2006. That’s one smart investment.
Current price is smoke & mirrors, IVR 20% price decline to sell is still wishfull thinking.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the second mortgage holder should lose $92,994 on this property with a 6% commission.
$577,000 – $514,900 = $62,100 short. 6% of $514,900 = $30,894. Total loss: $92,994
Aside from the math, is it really accurate to assume that there will be a 6% commission in this market? From the broker’s I’ve talked to, they say that right now you’re not likely to get more than 1.5% per party for a total of 3% commission.
When prices start to tank and credit tightens, does not commission decrease, on average, since less money is floating around and assets aren’t appreciating?
I find it sickening that this site, run by an “American”, is assisting Al Qaeda in reaping economic collapse upon the United States by talking down the U.S. housing market. We didn’t have any problems before sites like this popped up talking about a so-called “bubble”. The fifth column has succeeded where Al Qaeda failed. Where is your since of patriotism?
I’d buy that house for $800,000 if the banks would lend me the money. But, since I’m a Christian they will no longer lend to me.
I could give a rip about the beach (although it was a nice destination when I was wooing my future wife), but the proximinity to the coast provides one of the area’s best benefits IMHO – the weather. I don’t want to deal with snow and cold, extreme heat, hate the humidity, and like sunshine. I think San Diego’s weather is the best in the US, but the job market just isn’t as good there and costs are still relatively high although the bubble seemed to burst much earlier there…
My company has offices in Charlotte, Denver, and Phoenix, all of which I have spent a good bit of time at, and I wouldn’t trade the high cost of living to move to any of those three. Besides, I am one of those “mean” and aggressive drivers (comes from years of living in LA) and just wouldn’t be happy on anything but OC and LA freeways! 🙂
Sounds like all of USA- mean drivers, fake people, bloated sense of entitlement.
I have noticed that the general level of civility has dropped everywhere, coast to coast.
God help this country if we ever have REAL economic problems- like a 30s-type depression and permanent oil shortage.
I could not think of an eloquent way of putting this so just take a moment to surf here. I promise this surfing will not give you an infection.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asshat
IR, Thanks for all your hard work on this blog. I find it to be a very good read every morning and I agree with you and most posters almost all the time. I was born in Orange County almosy 50 years ago and have seen the county from it’s beginning for the most part.
IMHO, the Bernanke and AG’s interest rate’s decision always was and will be a political and not an economic decision.
AG creates the housing bubble to exchange one more term as Fed chairman.
Bernanke will make interest rates stay around 3.25% to3.5% next year this time around, so the economic not too good and no to bad but leave enough room for more rate cut. Therefore the next President can save the economic by cut rate to 1% again and hence he can be re-nominated.
I second Laura’s comment. I just moved back to the OC after 18 months in St. Louis. I lived in a really nice suburb there. There were plenty of people there that fit the above description — people that defined their value based on the car they drive and the subdivision they live in. I don’t know what zoiks is expecting to find somewhere else, but I expect he will be disappointed.
I moved back to SoCal because I missed all the things to do here, the restaurants (especially Mexican food), being able to be outside and comfortable 355 days a year. I also found that the culture here is more open and less xenophobic than there. I don’t want to spend my free time mowing a lawn, raking leaves, or shoveling snow.
Do your really believe Bernanke raise interest to 5.5% and not knowing the iceberg of sub-prime crisis is right in front?
IMHO, all this is because Bernanke wanted to let it happens sooner.
Don’t mean to be disrespectful, but anyone who think Irvine like this will not be happy anywhere in the world.
IR,
My gut instinct reaction to this property is that its not worth more than $200,000. It just is not. End of story. Too many competing properties. Its 2002 value was overstated.
This place is ugly and there is just too much competition. It will be leading the race to the bottom of the market and will only sell when its rental value exceeds the mortgage.
At first I thought the lot size was an error. Such a small lot for an older home like this.
Still can’t fathom how they picked this up in 02 and cleared 300K by 06. Incredible move, especially considering this place really looks it’s age, i.e. it’s a dump.
BTW, even though he was before my time I enjoyed the Elvis video. Now, I’m seriously considering sporting a pair of sideburns like his.
Troll. The housing bubble may have been stupid, but islamists are still evil. I think Hillarry knows this.
“I wrote at length last week on the impact of 100% financing. Properties like this one are on the market because the owners are underwater and they have no money in the deal.”
I disagree that the sole reason this property (and others like it) is on the market is due to 100% financing. The primary reason these properties are on the market is due to borrowers purchasing beyong their means. Far more important factors are the price/income ratio (too many people spend > 4 times their income) and total housing cost/gross monthly income (too many people spend > 28% of their gross monthly income on housing).
These are the factors that are forcing borrowers’ hands. They needed creative financing to “afford” the monthly cost, and now the creative financing is gone. The fact that they borrowed 100% just makes the decision to walk away an easy one, but it isn’t the main cause that is pushing them out of the home.
100% financing is a factor prohibiting borrowers from refinancing because they’re underwater, but it’s not the reason they need to refinance so badly.
The truth in advertising version.
1974 single story middle townhome sharing one wall located Freeway close!!! Newer paint and carpet having at least 1 or 2 years of useful beige life left. Newish double pane windows reduce playground, school and freeway noise to a nominal 90db throughout the day!!! Beautiful tiled patios minimize maintenance where you potted choices thrive without competition or any natural impacts.
In the end, this is a 2/2/2 1974 rental. The location is poor health wise, noise wise. The school is good but I wouldn’t want to park a young child in a bedroom 100 yards from the 405.
I wonder what equivalent rent is? If it isn’t fix primo, I’d say $1400.
You could buy it to get your kid away from renting during college, but I wouldn’t pay more than $200K to do that. For an investment, I’d pay $150,000 or less.
As if 100% financing wan’t stupid enough, banks were allowing this on stated income all the way up until the begging of this year. We are going to have a huge foreclosure problem next year through 2010. 20% off peak prices is nothing compared to what we will see when we are at the bottom of this. The chart was informative but the numbers are much worse. Lenders were financing 100% with one loan, seconds were not even needed, this was very common in 2006.
Hey Kirk, howya bin? Haven’t seen you for a while here!
“The fact that they borrowed 100% just makes the decision to walk away an easy one, but it isn’t the main cause that is pushing them out of the home.”
I agree. My only point was that we would not be seeing this house on the market now. If they did not use 100% financing, they would have tried harder and stayed with it longer before they went belly up.
To appreciate the quality of life here, go to a trendy bar in Laguna or whatnot and compare the eyecandy to the heifers you would look at from the flyover lands. No comparison. The Rose Bowl is also another clincher for SoCal: all the corn-feeders get green with envy seeing the sun and palm trees in contrast to their slushy (should be icy but it is getting warmer) surroundings.
The beaches, the mountains, and the Mojave are all close by. We have abundant natural beauty. Compare that to the Midwest: having gone to college there, one time I took my roommate’s cycle for a spin — I thought I would sightsee and cruise to somewhere interesting. After a hour of looking at nothing but corn, I turned tail and went back to town. There is no there there.
“…with three skylights that flood warmth and sunlight into this charming home.”
Realtorese has never been spoken more eloquently than this.
You don’t consider that the buyer didn’t or couldn’t organize their finances enough to put any money down as a major indicator that they over reached?
Even with as loose it got, putting money down still got a lower rate and lowered on going payments.
Snooping through Zillow in that neighborhood is interesting. It appears quite a number of the neighboring units have been held since the 70s. A number more since the last peak.
I’m guessing the neighbors aren’t the owners for many of the units and this is a defacto apartment complex.
That’s what was so ridiculous over the past couple years. All of these risks (high LTVs, high DTIs, low credit scores, teaser rates, no doc, no income, no assets, neg am, interest only, pay option ARM, etc.) have been around for years and managed well by lenders. But Wall Street decided to push for loans that combine every possible risk in as many loans as possible. The Street made great profit doing this, and now they’re experiencing the downside of this cycle.
I believe that if you visit Taiwan or Beijing, you need only say that you are from the town where “uni high” is located to get the locals’ eyes to light up. Hence the heavy immigrant presence in Irvine. But it is a bit odd to see my neighbors wearing welding-mask-facewear and gloves to go to the grocery store so they can keep their skin as white as possible. Having said that, I love ethnic food and the Ranch 99 market. But the wifey says it smells too much like fish in that grocery store, too many creepy crawlies for sale. And I am not sure about their seafood: they have an abundance of it so I bought some red snappers. They cooked up real slimy, they were not fresh at all despite their appearance. I say Irvine needs a new ordinance: just like it will soon be illegal to drive holding a cellphone, I say it should be illegal to drive wearing a welding mask.
ROTFLMFAO!
Side note: Chris, didn’t you learn sarcasm in school? 😉
You got that right, banks would structure their guidelines on whatever their wall street investors would accept. I’m not saying that banks are the innocent victim of this credit crunch, but it seems that is where the finger is being pointed at. Banks are a business, they sell money, they will lend on whatever they can sell.
Yes, it’s likely in most cases, that the reason borrowers financed 100% is because they didn’t have the financial discipline to save at least 10%.
But even if you’re financing 100%, if you purchase a home
continued …
…
… less than 4 times your income and keep your total housing cost less than 28% of your gross monthly income, then the LTV doesn’t matter too much.
Just a few months ago, rates on firsts, with or without piggyback seconds were the same. And with piggyback rates so low (9% for prime borrowers), the “tax-shift” lowered that to an effective rate near 6%. So a prospective purchaser could reasonably decide to keep their 5-20% downpayment (if they had one) and maintain the flexibility the case provides.
Stay in school and work hard kids. When you become CEO you will be able afford a fine place like this.
I have a question about short sales in general. It’s my understanding that you have to be behind on your payments in order for the bank to even consider a short sale. So if a homeowner can’t or decides they don’t want to make payments on a depreciating asset, they must first fall behind on payments before approaching the banks for a short sale. Therefore, won’t most of the short sale 100% financed properties like this one end up in foreclosure because there is no chance of selling at a price the banks will accept? How does that process work?
Ha Ha, very funny
When you need to negotiate a short sale with the bank because you are behind on payments, the realtor needs to get an offer to submit to the bank. The bank doesn’t set the sales price. It is the realtors job to convince the bank that the offer is reasonable based on the current market for that immediate area and also that taking the offer will be less costly than following through with a foreclosure. If the bank does not accept the offer, the realtor still needs to try to convince the bank that the offer is the best way to go. If the bank does not accept and there are no other offers to submit, the bank will follow through with a foreclosure. The problem right now is that even short sales that are listed below market value are still not getting offers.
Kirk, where’s your blog? You didn’t post your link.
Good to hear back from our favorite troll.
Interesting. That definitely supports the theory that this is going to get far worse in 2008 as all of these short sales slowly turn into REO’s.
IR, maybe they would, but maybe they just couldn’t.
Many people are walking away from what would seem like big stakes, but the bald fact is that even with their down, they are underwater, and can’t make the payments.
Let’s say you make 100K, between yourself and your spouse, a year and bought a 750K house for 20% down, or $150K. You bought in 2005, and now the place is worth $450K, or at least you can see it is on it’s way to that. Worse, you took the “teaser” rate because you figured that the place would be worth 900k at least by the time the reset came, and you used the left-over swing income to buy yourself a couple of cars worth of the house, 80K each. Plus furniture-you don’t want to move in with the same stuff from Ikea and Wickes that you had in the little ranch house in Lakewood or someplace.
And then you get reset and your payments almost double, which is really bad news because you can’t sell the stupid house for what you paid and your wife got downsized, and it’s either forfiet the house or the cars, and you KNOW you can’t live in SoCal with out at least one car per adult.
And maybe you WANT to hang on and maintain your credit rating,and just plain do the right thing, but since one of you is laid off, your net income has dropped to $40K a year. And you really couldn’t afford the place on a 30 year fixed, or come near affording it really, on 100K a year so what will you do now that one of your incomes has vaporized?
I have witnessed this vicious downward spiral among many formerly prosperous people. Salespeople and business owners are particularly vulnerable to cycles, and in the past, such people would live well under their incomes, for they knew they couldn’t count on those incomes year in and year out.
Kirk should know that belief only divides and thus is ultimately evil: as soon as you say I believe in Christianity (or whatever) you are in conflict with someone who says they believe in Islam (or vice-versa). Hence the wars and misery that has shadowed us for thousands of years. Shame on you. Having said that, the wifey is always after me to go to church. what can you do, when in Rome do as the Romans, as they say. But shame on you again.
Right on, Rastaman. I spent the first 20 years of my life in flyover country (suburbs of Minneapolis), and while it is a very nice city I have never looked back since I came to West Coast 15 years ago. When I was a kid certainly I can remember watching the Rose Bowl with envy on New Year’s Day — but what really got me was watching the Long Beach Grand Prix in early April. Seeing those cars race down the palm tree lined streets while I looked out the window and saw snow still on the ground (this is early April we are talking) was too much. It would seem my parents still living back in flyover country seem to agree that So Cal has a llittle more to offer: 2007 Visit Tally: Parents to CA = 6(!); Us to Minnesota = 0.
Just curious, where did you live in St. Louis. I grew up there and have been in Irvine for a few years. I still miss it at times especially the affordable real estate. It would be nearly impossible to give up the weather here though.
I lived in Wildwood. The real estate WAS affordable, and now I know why! 😉 jk It just wasn’t the place for me.
That was funny.
I feel the same way except for the fact that my feeling’s for the Bay Area. I actually like OC and Irvine.
I think lack of interior photos will generally indicate one of three things:
1. It is currently rented.
2. The interior is in bad shape.
3. Foreclosure
BTW, I only can see 2 problems from zoiks’ comment: traffic and crowd. Gang in Irvine? Sure if you count the Irvine police department as a gang….they’re tough alright…blatant racial profiling if I might add. Garbage? Have you seen San Jose? Blight? Have you seen San Jose?
Salary, we got it better here. Housing crash, slowly coming down and not as bad as OC but getting there.
“Stay in school and work hard kids. When you become CEO you will be able afford a fine place like this.”
Two sentences the pretty much summarize the state of the housing market in SoCal.
It seems that Kirk does not only hate Al Qaeda, he also hates gramatically correct English, judging from his “since [sic] of patriotism”.
This property in any other state would be about $100k, so $200k for Irvine sounds about right. 😀
“Astute buyers are preparing for an unprecedented buying opportunity in the very near future. It won’t last long.”
And us not-astute renters will wait and buy after the foreclosure tsunami at prices 40% off.
Hopefully my post won’t offend Tonye. As I’ve said before, California and particularly southern Cal. has some wonderful attributes.
Moved year and a half ago to southern Oregon from OC.
Things I miss: TRADER JOE’S (but their people assure me we have one coming to the area in the near future).
NORDSTROMS
VARIETY OF GOOD RESTAURANTS, especially some of the chains.
GREAT WEATHER (but four seasons can be really nice.)
BEACHES – however, we didn’t spend much time there because there were too many people, and getting there, finding a place to park and spot on the sand was too much hassle.
SOME REALLY GREAT CHURCHES
Things I do NOT miss:
TRAFFIC – Night and day it’s always bad.
AIR QUALITY – it’s improved but it’s still bad
PRENTENTIOUS PEOPLE PRETENDING…nuff said.
VOLUME OF PEOPLE – nuff said
ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE-no explanation needed
OUT OF CONTROL TAXATION – This will only get worse.
NOISE – living in So. Cal. you forget what quiet sounds like.
RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED STUCCO BOXES – also known as tract homes.
I’m not disparaging OC, or southern CA. Just expressing my personal observations/feelings. I enjoy myself 3-4 times a year when I visit my daughter in Irvine. Yesterday she told me that she and her boyfriend figured they’d be exiting California after graduating UCI next year as they would like to be able to live better than what they are able to do renting bedrooms in houses “close” to the beach.
English as a second language, meaning to many hispanics or Asians?
I am so happy you moved out to Oregon. More space for bilingual people who are are tolerant, hard working, and honest.
I’ve driven in the OC only once but I can say that out here in the IE the drivers are far more patient and civil than the drivers in West Texas. The driving philosophy of Texans seems to be “Me First!” and “It’s always my turn!” I was afraid to drive through parking lots in my relatively small car because those crazy people will back up their gigantic SUVS and pick up trucks without even so much as a courtesy glance over their shoulders simply because it’s always their turn. And don’t get me started on highway driving. It can’t be worse than that in the OC.
And I grew up in the Baltimore/Washington area so I’ve seen some crazy-assed drivers.
Damn. Had to check the poster’s name to make sure I hadn’t written this and then forgotten about it.
I think this is the real estate agent that chases her tail on weekends.
You need to move asap.
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you. -yoda
I fail to see the humor in the fact that Christians are the most persecuted majority in the United States.
Pot meet kettle: “he also hates gramatically (sic) correct English”
Or is it better to make up the spelling or words? Elitist.
Chris, there was no housing bubble. Perhaps I should have clarified in my previous comment that I would pay $800,000 in FRN’s, but I would only pay $125,000 in gold backed Liberty Dollars.
I was working on a campaign trying to stop the interracial gay bathroom sex propaganda from leaking to the public. I was successful. So, I feel pretty good.
Say all you want about 4 seasons, but I just read they were evacuating Oregon in rafts today. You can have that season. To me, a happiness is the ability to wear my flip flops to Trader Joe’s on December 31st, in order to stock up on beer and burgers (to grill outside) that will be enjoyed with my diverse group of friends from all over the world who speak many languages but all share the common bond of a love for wearing flip flops in December, to watch USC on New Years Day. While our wives shop at Nordstroms.
Too many people rang my site bell. So, I don’t give out the address anymore.
Which one is your favorite troll?
Yes, because new paint and carpet looks so great from the curb.
Folks, I never thought kool-aid could be emailed….
A nice one day soaking here in SOUTHERN OREGON, no flooding or wind here. That was further north and on the coast. You can wear flip flops here year round too, but you’d be more stylish in Birkenstocks. Today was a nice 67 degrees…plenty of sunshine, flip flops and shirt sleeves were doable. Oregon has a Nordrstroms etc., just no sales tax. But as Tonye pointed out some time ago Nordies doesn’t sell flannel shirts and Carharrt stuff so folks here don’t have much use for their overpriced merchandise.
“all share the common bond of a love for wearing flip flops in December, to watch USC on New Years Day. While our wives shop at Nordstroms.”
IMHO, I couldn’t paraphase what is wrong with Southern California more than the pride in the common bond you have with friends being your wives shopping while you watch football.
My in-laws amuse me with tales of cousins and such that would make the mistake of standing at a bus stop in Irvine while being Hispanic: inevitably, the Irvine po-leece would inquire for ID and whatnot, generally harassing them on race-based grounds. Being pale-faced, I have not had any problems with Irvine cops: except for the a-hole who hid his motorcycle up on the sidewalk and lurked behind bushes by UCI: there is a no left turn side by the In-n-out parking lot. Of course, I looked both ways, saw nobody, and then made my left. Damn cop jumped out from behind the bushes and cited me. What kind of community is it where a man cannot make an illegal left hand turn just because some ticket-happy SOB is hiding behind a tree? Outrageous.
As a denizen of Chicago and native of St. Louis, I’d respectfully beg to differ with you on the Midwest. There are many places of beauty, charm, character, and opportunity.
Chicago- beautiful old northern city with incredible architecture, culture, and urban amenities. Many unique neighborhoods that are liveable and comfortable. Beautiful suburbs. Great colleges and universities. Incredible variety of housing stock even if it is currently overpriced. Great transit, great city ambiance, lots of wealth and economic opportunity. Still my fave after 20 winters.
St. Louis- beautiful old buildings, top-tier cultural amenities, many beautiful, moody old neighborhoods, Washington University, very literary, too bad about the horrible crime and lack of transit.
Minneapolis- lovely mid-sized city area with low crime, and one of the most intelligent and well-educated populations in the country. Highly civil atmosphere. Very visual-arts-oriented.
Not to dis CA, a place with incredible scenery, many different types of communities, some of the most original and arresting architecture anywhere, gorgeous weather, and great wealth and opportunity, plus a draw for great-looking people. I would like to try both ends of the state. There is no place like CA.
NSR — if I read your confusing post correctly, you are saying that taking a few hours off from your spouse to bond with the guys is what ill’s Southern California? I hope I did not read that correctly, and if I did read correctly please go update the software for your sacasm dectector — my comments were purely tounge in cheek. Not that I think there is anything wrong or unhealthy with actually having other interests than your spouse. As a matter of fact, it makes the marriage more healthy. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the societal ill of men watching bowl games on New Year’s Day will be repeated in households all over the world, that is not unique to SoCal.
I still love Minneapolis, it’s my hometown — I’m going for a visit next week. I just can’t wear flip flops in January there, and that’s a problem.
I understand watching football, having beer, wearing sunscreen and grilling some brats while standing around in t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops on New Years day. That’s what keeps me from the great white north.
Unfortunately for SoCal, “we watch football while the wives shop at Nordies” or Tiffany’s or Rodeo or wherever isn’t a one day anomaly. In fact, the “wives shop at NORDSTROMS” rather than just shop, or the battle over Quail Hill is *better* than the flat lands or anything is else is what I poke fun at.
Yes, “while our wives shop at Nordstroms” is a great paraphrase for SoCal’s consumption as validation mindset.
OMG, I about fell off my chair when I read that! They are right – there will be an unprecedented CLIFF prices will fly right off of here soon when all the REO’s hit the market. And it may not take long at all!
Is there something in the water or in the air on the west coast that caused this insane California bubble? Besides million dollar loans with 0% down which is crazy enough, the loans were made with no proof of income. I’ve never heard of these crazy loans here in Eastern Pa. If they did exist it was rare.
I am absolutely amazed things got so out of hand all over California. 800 sq foot homes with bars on the windows for $500,000? WTF? Are the schools that bad? Was there a panic to “get in or priced out”? Or was it just some great con game that finally got stopped?
Well, I feel better now having vented all that. I was at the beach with the family this weekend and wanted to throw up at all the garbage lining the shore and floating in the water. As well as all the dead birds that washed up. Etc. etc.
OK maybe OC isn’t quite as bad as I made it out to be, but it sure ain’t all it’s worked up to be.
FWIW, not all of California is that bad. Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara, hell Bishop, Oakhurst, even Julian I always thought were nice. Since I’m not an Irvine resident proper (I live in Costa Mesa) gangs are a reality. Maybe not as bad as Santa Ana or LA, but still not trivial and not the ideal environment for the kids. Of course, there’s the Latino gangs, but fewer people have heard about the skinhead gangs, in particular one known as PEN1. They recently stabbed a guy at a 7-11 on Harbor and shot another guy in his apartment, amongst other things.
Seriously, though, I have friends and family who visit here from the East Coast, and though I try to show them around, they usually aren’t impressed because they had it in their minds that OC was much nicer. Clearly, it’s way over-hyped. There are many places with better weather and better quality of life. And almost everyone has better beaches. They just usually lack certain kinds of high-paying jobs.
I do plan on leaving, BTW.
Yet the irony is the only reason I even referenced Nordstorm was a response to someone from Oregon who said they missed Nordstrom. In reality, my real working mother of the OC wife is much more likely to be at Target than Nordstrom. Orange County does not have the market on consumption.
CK – I would argue that OC does have a bigger corner on consumerism than many other areas. IMO one of the reasons the bubble is bursting on a huge scale there is because of the rampant “look at me” syndrome so prevalent in Orange county. One has to spend large sums of money to keep up that look – everything from the auto one drives to the designer clothes, to the extra permanent cup size. Kind of hard to maintain appearances on $70K median salaries without debt somewhere. Plus all the choices you have, such as restaurants, and department stores is too much temptation! Nordstroms is the best example. Handbags that probably cost a few dollars to make in an overseas factory just begging your wife to spend $500.00 or more to have the “it” bag of the season! I don’t think that mentality exists on such a level anywhere else as much as it does in SoCal.
Repent your heinous sins!
Where is Torquemada when you need him?
Cardinal Ximenez is not quite up to par. All he can do is to get Cardinal Fang to ring up the charges and Cardinal Biggles to wield the Comfy Chair.
Bugger!
I’m sure you didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition, eh?
BTW, 100K per household is NOT prosperous in Irvine. It’s lower middle class.
It was all the New Yorkers that moved over here.
It seems they got tired of the weather in Connecticut and decided to move to Santa Monica, Brentwood and Encino.
So the locals took their money and went south to coastal OC or west to Westlake Village.
Some of the New Yorkers, mostly the ones from Manhattan, moved to San Francisco and that’s the reason why RE is so expensive in Santa Clara County and environs.
Nordstrom’s was founded in Seattle. I used to shop there before you even knew it existed when you lived in OC.
There’s a Nordstrom’s and a Trader Joes up the freeway from you in Eugene.
Good luck with the mountain passes south of Roseburg with this weather though. They are a bitch in heavy rain and if the snow falls they can be a real pain. Mostly because the roadway ( North of Sexton Summit) is shaded all day long during the winter and the black ice can be horrendous.
http://www.tripcheck.com/Pages/RCMap.asp?mainNav=RoadConditions&curRegion=7
At least in California, liquor taxes are cheap, we buy our booze in private stores on sunday, not overpriced State Liquor Stores and we can pump our own gas.
As an old friend of mine once said: In California there are three things you can get every day: gas, ass and grass.
That also explains why San Francisco always votes solidly Democrat, and thus for higher taxation. Those blue bloods from back east have such guilt complexes.
Man, I don’t know where you all live, but where I live in Irvine, it’s mini-vans and basic SUV central. Families around me (mine included) frequent Target and Costco WAY more than they would ever visit Nordies. People wear stuff from the Gap or the Old Navy down the street… No one wears designer anything.
People in my part of Irvine appeared to be most concerned about raising and educating their kids, savings some bucks for retirement and college, and having a reasonably nice but fairly modest stucco box to call home. For the most part, the residents in my neighborhood are hard working, future-oriented, and fairly genuine.
I see the colagen and implant crowd in Newport when we make the occasional trip to Fashion Island. For the most part, you aren’t going to run into those kind of people at soccer games in Irvine…
I stocked up TJ’s in Eugene in October. Are you sure there’s a Nordies there? I didn’t see or hear of one. Eugene also has a new PF Changs and Pottery Barn (reminded me of the hood in OC!)
You won’t catch me out there on the freeways in snow and ice. I prefer to slide down my own hill in two wheel drive on the ice – kind of like an e ticket ride for free. Also stay off the Siskiyous…ever had a semi in your rear view mirror laying on the horn because he can’t stop on the ice??? Scary!
Santas Cruz and Barbara are pretty, but cooler, wet, and overcast far too frequently. Hard to get a decent job in either of those places without a killer commute. Can drive over the mountain from SC to San Jose, or from SB down to the West Valley area, but that’s lots of hours in the car everyday.
I’d volunteer the Central Coast / San Luis Obispo as another great CA place to live, although the job market there sucks as well. SLO is beautiful and has great weather… Got a well organized Arian gang there too – they called FFA (Future Farmers of America)!
The toughest gangs in Irvine are the mom’s group and the HOAs.
Thank you, IPO could not agree more. Sure, there are a lot of a-holes in OC, but there are a lot everywhere. I just don’t see how it is any worse here than anywhere else. I spend a fair amount of time in Dallas with my job, and IMHO we have nothing on them. Consumerism is an American thing, not a SoCal thing. Further, I think all the TV shows give people outside the area a distorted view of what life is really like here for the “folks”. FWIW, although my family takes in more than twice the much discussed Irvine median income, we drive not one but TWO HONDA’s, and rent a humble townhouse. The money we could be spending on the Benz goes into the 529 Plan. That’s the way it is for a lot of us, I suspect. I don’t even know if they sell flip flops at Nordstrom, but I know they do at Old Navy!
I’ve done the Shiskiyous many times. In fact, when I moved to California, I drove over the pass in single file with chains on my Vega. When we hit the California side a second storm moved in. Yes…. I remember seeing the “Welcome to Sunny California” sign for the first time in the middle of a snowstorm while my Vega was going whump! whump! at 15 mph….
We also did a drive to Seattle in Xmas ’90. The entire NW as far down as Redding had been hit in a single day first with a wet snowstorm from the west that then shifted into a frigid Alaska Train cold wave. The entire NW as far south as Redding was a solid sheet of ice over snow.
Going across the Shiskiyous we went down single file. No chains because the road had been graveled. As we went around a semi that had lost his brakes (or he just couldn’t stop) the poor guy decided to slide into the right handside guardrail in order to create friction.
As you know, the top of the Oregon side of the pass is a set of switchbacks…. We just made it around him but I have no clue whether he shut the freeway behind us. We just kept sliding our way down the mountain.
That was also the day that the old I5 bridge over the river at Eugene was frozen solid. The traffic was single file over it, one car at a time per direction. That gave wide room in case the car went sideways. It was a wild ride…. took us 8 hours to go from the Grants Pass to Portland. Worst drive of my life…. specially after seeing Medivac helicopters come up and take people away…. Those people with 4×4 trucks hadn’t realized that although they could accelerate they couldn’t slow down and the overpasses were completely covered with black ice.
As you can imagine, a pick up truck going off the freeway at 50 mph is not a good place to be.
The Nordstrom’s website showed a store in Eugene. However living in the rural NW I image that Pendleton and REI would make a better choice.
If we had listened to Torquemada then we wouldn’t have so many problems now.
Amen to that CK. Between my wife and I we are pushing two bills a year and we have an old Ford Explorer and a couple year old Nissan SUV. I don’t want a car payment so we can’t afford shiny new rides all the time… Between a tiny mortgage on a modest condo, daycare, fully funding the 401k plans, almost $400 a month to education IRA for our boys, and another $250 a month to their 529 plans we pretty much spend every nickel we make. Buying designer this-and-that and living at Nordies would require a reduction in our retirement/college savings level and those already feel too low. For the most part, all the families on my block are of a similar ilk. Actually it is the renters who seem to have the nicest cars!
The same principle would apply to any income at too large a multiple of your income.
If you have too much indebtedness in relation to your income, you are in trouble.
Granted, on $500K a year, you at least don’t need to spend more than a tiny percentage merely to eat and buy fuel. However, if you make $400K and pay 7X your income for a house, on a no-down note, you will be in pretty bad shape when the reset comes, if not before.
Here in Chicago, $100K is middle-class, neither upper-middle nor lower-middle, but it doesn’t really matter where you rank on the scale if you have grossly overcommitted yourself on debt.
I used to walk home from work in downtown Chicago, to my apt about 4 miles north. My path took me up Michigan Ave, through Lincoln Park and Lakeview, and what hit me was I was surrounded by such a cornucopia of really choice consumer goods from almost every luxury store in the world -Nordstrom’s, Tiffany’s, Cartier, The Red Door, Nieman-Marcus, Saks, Gucci, Chanel,and every other purveyer of luxury goods you can name-that I could spend my way through $50MM in one afternoon, and that I could easily, with no effort, go through $10MM a year and have completely nothing to show for it asset-wise but a shoe collection to rival Imelda Marcos and closets full of outdated designer clothes. There are many people in this city who made seven-digit incomes as traders at the CBOT, who then busted out and have NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL to show for a few years as million-dollar earners.
Yet I have also talked to people who plod along in $45K a year jobs who have vast cash reserves and own decent homes outright. Their lives are not flashy. They have no status. But they manage to accumulate a truly impressive pile of assets, and absolutely no debt. Additionally, they lead nice, calm, stress-free lives.
I remember Wildwood as pretty nice for the St.Louis area. I lived in Atlanta too and Wildwood kind of reminded me of many of the suburbs there, like Alpharetta. It’s certainly not Irvine though, or Aliso or MV or Ladera or pretty much anywhere in socal. OK, I guess it sucked.
Why no interior pictures.
Very bad way of marketing the house.
apologia
noun
a formal written defense of something you believe in strongly [syn: apology]
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
They (and I) are being pedantic. 🙂
This used to be a blog about Irvine and maybe a little OC.
Why must I read this garbage about Chicago and Washington state and so on….does anyone here give a hoot about those places?
Seems like a lot of flaming going on here now. It’s generally the death of a blog when that starts to happen…
Let’s try to stay on point, after all. It’s about us, it’s all about us.
:vampire: