Since we are the Irvine Housing Blog, and since we can be unbiased (we don’t take advertising dollars from realtors), we are the perfect conduit for information regarding the performance of local realtors. We are strictly acting as an information conduit — with our own interpretation, of course. The source data can be found at OC Home Review. The OC Home Review’s list of Irvine Realtors provides a ranking of realtors based on the number of active listings they currently have on the market. Since it is my opinion that this is a completely meaningless statistic, I have downloaded their information and sorted it on different criteria.
I have compiled 4 different categories of agent rankings:
- Largest Number of Sales
- Highest Sales Rate
- Lowest Sales Rate
- Dishonorable Mention
The largest number of sales is self-explanatory. The agents who are closing deals, particularly in this market environment, are doing a great job, and I wish to recognize their accomplishment here. If you want to sell your house in Irvine, these are the people you should be seeking out.
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The Highest Sales Rate is another way of looking at performance. These realtors may not take as many listings and sell as many houses, but if they take a listing, they get the job done. These are the realtors who will be able to focus more attention on your listing and make sure it sells. To make this list, the realtor must have had at least 4 listings, and sold at least 3 of those.
These final two categories are something you will only find on a website like ours. These are the lists of realtors who are not doing a good job.
There are plenty of starving realtors out there who are doing no job at all, but these lists do not include those. To make either of these lists, you have to be actively listing properties. The one thing both of these lists have in common is that the realtors are not acting in their clients best interest. These are the realtors who pandered to their clients fantasies and wishing prices and put properties on the market at prices that simply will not sell. When these sellers most needed a dose of market reality, these realtors served them kool aid.
The Lowest Sales Rate list is composed of realtors who had at least 3 market listings and less than a 25% sales rate. Basically, these people did not get the job done. A realtor’s job is not to make a homeowner feel good about their property values by stroking their egos with ridiculous asking prices. A realtor’s job is to sell houses — period. Unless they are getting paid as psychologists or emotional hookers by pretend sellers, they are simply wasting everyone’s time. Which leads us to our last category: Dishonorable Mention.
Dishonerable Mention is our WTF Hall of Fame — or Hall of Infamy if you prefer. Any realtor with a listing that makes our WTF list is featured here. A realtor can be removed from the list in three ways:
- Make the Largest Number of Sales list.
- Make the Highest Sales Rate list.
- Sell the house for a purchase price within 5% of the asking price. If this occurs, we will admit we were wrong and apologize.
Other than that, they are blacklisted for life.
If you click on the agent’s name in the lists below, it will lead you to a complete listing of the properties these agents represent. I clicked on some of these, particularly the poor performers, to see what was — or wasn’t — going on. Two things jumped out at me: first, John McMonigle and Rodney Sudbeck have almost all of their listings in Turtle Ridge, and nothing is selling there; second, Lee Ann Canaday (the Sunday Morning TV Show) took on a bunch of listings in the Marquee towers, and nothing is selling there either.
Largest Number of Sales
| Agent Name | Sold | Expired | Sold Rate | Active | Total Listings |
| 1 | Todd Muradian | 62 | 20 | 75.61% | 15 | 97 |
| 2 | Roula Fawaz | 25 | 9 | 73.53% | 0 | 34 |
| 3 | Frank Agahi | 17 | 12 | 58.62% | 13 | 42 |
| 4 | Fred Stepanian | 17 | 12 | 58.62% | 0 | 29 |
| 5 | Mike Dunn | 16 | 8 | 66.67% | 0 | 24 |
| 6 | Matthew Ingalls | 15 | 6 | 71.43% | 0 | 21 |
| 7 | Doris Lipscomb | 15 | 4 | 78.95% | 0 | 19 |
| 8 | Ali Atri | 14 | 8 | 63.64% | 3 | 25 |
| 9 | Donna Gillespie | 14 | 4 | 77.78% | 0 | 18 |
| 10 | Hanu Reddy | 13 | 7 | 65% | 0 | 20 |
Highest Sales Rate
| Agent Name | Sold | Expired | Sold Rate | Active | Total Listings |
| 1 | Ryan Kashanchi | 11 | 1 | 91.67% | 0 | 12 |
| 2 | Tom Nash | 7 | 1 | 87.50% | 3 | 11 |
| 3 | Chris Merritt | 11 | 2 | 84.62% | 4 | 17 |
| 4 | Amy Farrell-Caves | 5 | 1 | 83.33% | 0 | 6 |
| 5 | Dale Cheema | 5 | 1 | 83.33% | 0 | 6 |
| 6 | Lynn & Gina Yang | 5 | 1 | 83.33% | 0 | 6 |
| 7 | Sherman Smith | 4 | 1 | 80% | 3 | 8 |
| 8 | Maurice Sousse | 4 | 1 | 80% | 0 | 5 |
| 9 | Mehri Borhani | 4 | 1 | 80% | 0 | 5 |
| 10 | Kevin Tolan | 4 | 1 | 80% | 0 | 5 |
Lowest Sales Rate
| Agent Name | Sold | Expired | Sold Rate | Active | Total Listings |
| 1 | John Mcmonigle | 0 | 8 | 0% | 0 | 8 |
| 2 | Rodney S. Sudbeck | 0 | 5 | 0% | 1 | 6 |
| 3 | Michael Lowary | 0 | 4 | 0% | 0 | 4 |
| 4 | Janto Hariyanto | 0 | 3 | 0% | 1 | 4 |
| 5 | Connie Chung | 0 | 3 | 0% | 1 | 4 |
| 6 | Olga Matthews | 0 | 3 | 0% | 0 | 3 |
| 7 | Hannah Lim | 0 | 2 | 0% | 10 | 12 |
| 8 | Kerianne Waldrop | 1 | 5 | 16.67% | 3 | 9 |
| 9 | Nancy Keeley-Campbell | 1 | 5 | 16.67% | 1 | 7 |
| 10 | Lee Ann Canaday | 3 | 12 | 20% | 0 | 15 |
Dishonorable Mention
Paula Allen – WTF-Were-You-Thinking Prices
Mija Kim – LOL, OMG, WTF?
Marcus Garcia – Insulting Asking Prices
Brian Righetti – Edington Terrace Trifecta
Kathy Kudray – Turtle Ridge Dreamers
Joanne Chivers – Turtle Ridge Dreamers
Sheila Mayers – Turtle Ridge Dreamers
Dale Cheema – Birds of a Feather (will be removed for making highest sales rate list)
Sally Anne Sheridan – Birds of a Feather
Susan Lombardi – Happy Birthday
Michael Pickell – New Mountain High
Final Thoughts
As many of you have probably speculated, we have a number of realtors who read this blog regularly. The vast majority are lurkers who just want to be aware of what the bears are saying. Some of them may not be happy about being called out here.
Too bad.
Realtors who are doing a poor job should be called out. A spotlight should be shined on them until they perform better or get out of the profession. Perhaps a little public humiliation will cause them to change their ways. They should be happy this isn’t medieval Europe. They had effective ways of dealing with problem behavior.
Bring back the stocks…
IR, I just want to say that you’re doing a great job in your investigative work.
“Realtors who are doing a poor job should be called out.”
I think it is much deeper than that, and I think Irvine Renter is too much of a gentleman to point out what has become the obvious. That is, the problems associated with dropping standards in the business, have less to do with some Realtors “doing a poor job” or being lazy, and more to do with incompetence. This bear market has exposed those that do not have the ability to write a coherent sentence, much less sale a home.
—–
Are you a realtor or just grammar impaired? “Coherent Sentence” and “sale a home” don’t belong in the same sentence
Unlike the MLS, the blog software does not allow editing once an entry is made. I suspect Lee would have corrected the error before it was on display for 100 days.
IR, GREAT JOB!!!!!
JUST A SUGGESTION: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT LET FOLKS POST THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH ANY PARTICULAR REALTOR TOO HERE? ONLY FACTS (I.E. WHAT THEY SAID, AND DID)…NO NAMING CALLING OR PERONAL OPINION…
It’s also not my profession to participate in legal real estate transactions. BTW, One of the first basic grammar rules I learned, was how to end a sentence properly, usually in the form of a period. (.)
That would be up to all of you. I don’t censure posts unless they are personal and/or inappropriate.
These experiences could also be topics in our forum.
Perhaps we should ask Zovall if he can install an editing feature…
“These are the realtors who pandered to their clients fantasies and wishing prices and put properties on the market at prices that simply will not sell. When these sellers most needed a dose of market reality, these realtors served them kool aid.”
I think that statement might be too broad. At the end of the day, the client controls the goals, and the realtor handles the methods. The realtor can only do so much to talk sense into someone. After a long discussion, if the client is demanding a certain price or profit, the realtor’s choice is to list at the client’s demanded price, or walk. Perhaps after a number of DOM, the client will be more willing to listen.
I’m not saying that none of the poor performing realtors did not serve their clients kool aid, but its entirely possible that some of them didn’t and the clients were listening to Gary Watts.
This post should produce some interesting responses from a few of the above named agents….
I’m making the popcorn now…
BTW, a suggestion to the above names agents: Spell check. It’s only one button. 😉
D’OH! I just owned myself…
I am sure that is true for many would be sellers.
However, when some realtors are consistently selling homes and some realtors are consistently seeing their listings expire, it would be my opinion this is due to the realtor and not the clients.
The reators who are selling homes must be able to convince their clients the market is where it is and not where the client wants it to be. In my opinion, the realtor who cannot convince the client to list at a reasonable market price probably will not be able to convince a buyer to buy either.
Can we put them in divisions and do a fantasy realtor draft? =)
It’ Sunday, and I woke thinking there was a football game on today…it’s only July.
Fifteen Mil in Shady Ridge.
There you go….and if you need pictures you have to ask them…
http://www.ochomereview.com/homewp/index.php?p=137095
No wonder the guy ain’t selling jack.
Shady Canyon…. err…..
Is Rodney S. Sudbeck really that weak?
I thought he was a top turtle ridge specialist?
Hi IR,
I’m a Realtor and I have a blast reading your blog. I also have a blog and I thought I was vocal! Thanks for giving us a good laugh. It’s desperately needed in this line of work.
You do a great job and your investigation is very a propos. Speaking of a propos, you didn’t mention Realtors like me who do not take on unrealistic sellers. There are many of us around and we are taking it easy this year. Sure it’s frustrating but less than being in front of someone who doesn’t understand why some of us are “professionals” that don’t like a negative image.
So I think you should have a special mention for agents who “abstain” from taking on listings that clearly won’t sell.
Oh, and you know the saying: “99% of them give the 1% of us a bad name…”
Nick,
Are you saying 99% of realtors are bad and only 1% are good? Maybe a Freudian slip?
In this Internet age where product reviews (cnet.com,etc.), book reviews (amazon.com) and travel reviews (tripadvisor.com) websites are popular and when used properly a very effective tool for consumers…
Why, oh, why there are not builder or realtor reviews?
Is this an idea ahed of its age?
If buying a home is one of the most important transactions for first time buyers, why Internet tools have not come to the rescue of them?
did I say it out loud? 😉
I think that was an intentional joke. You will sometimes hear lawyers say, “Please don’t judge our whole profession on the basis of just a few hundred thousand bad apples out there . . .” 😉
I considered that possibility, but I thought it sad rather than funny.
Anyone ever heard of the Fenchels? Eric and Robin. I’ve had horrible experience with them. . . rudeness followed by an (untrue) accusation. I wish I could be more specific because it was such an egregious and appalling set of interactions. Let me just recommend that you avoid this pair, and ask if anyone else has had any interactions with them, positive or negative. . .
Yes, it is a sad joke, as in we also need to laugh and not take things so seriously. Remember, that’s what got this market in trouble in the first place.
Yes, it is usually associated with lawyers. According to some late statistics, Realtors are now fifth most distrusted professionals, above lawyers. I can’t cry over it when I see how many agents acts and I don’t take things personally. It’s just a healthy thing to do 😉
Wow, sorry about the misunderstanding. I was meant as humor.
I still feel there is a lot of truth in it whether you are talking about Realtors, lawyers, mechanics or any service oriented profession.
Lastly, another one I love; figures don’t lie but liars figure. Hope this one isn’t taken out of context. I mean it as the many statistics out there for some experts and newspapers to use to distort truths.
the fenchels? i notice their listings are always way overpriced (~8-12%) and end up sitting there forever, but nothing bad aside from that.
you’ll have to tell us more…they have had a few listings in quail hill where i live. i honestly do not understand why anyone would use them to list
Nick,
Thank you for your comments. When I was looking through the realtor listings, I did notice a fair number of realtors who had strong sales numbers from 2006 who have no active listings. These would be the “Abstaining” agents you speak about. I do commend them. It is certainly better to abstain than to do poor work. It is sad for these realtors that this cycle will be so hard. Maybe some of this group will shoot for the Highest Sales Rate list. One out of one is certainly better than going 0 for 5.
I wish I had the time to set up something like this but for realtors: http://www.ratemyteachers.com My kids tell me it is usually right on.
Over what period of time were these listings and sales made? 1 year?
Also, how valuable is a real estate agent? Especially as a buyer, why would I need one?
Thanks, very good point.
This is the right time for agents to redefine themselves and really ask that big question: “Am I doing the right thing?” Are you working for your clients or yourself? Are you surviving or is this a passion?
It’s a great time for growth but not automatically financial.
Thanks
As a buyer, like you, there are times when I turn to a professional and times when I do it alone.
My perspective is like this, I can work on my cars but don’t because if something goes wrong, that’s when it’s nice to have a professional who knows what to do. After all, they know things I don’t know. That’s where I stop trying to save money when I can end up losing a lot
Sometimes, however, I feel I can learn enough to do it myself and I go for it. For instance, a easy car repair, or easy house maintenance.
Personally, I would never tackle alone all the disclosures and paper work involved in a real estate transaction. It’s one step closer to para-legal work. I have seen too many horror stories.
The real question is, how well do you know the subject and how far will you go take a chance?
If you know of a good professional, use her/she. If you don’t know anyone, ask for help. We’re not talking hundreds or thousands of dollars here, we are talking hundred of thousands of dollars. It’s a different ball game.
Find the right balance. Hope this helps. Nick
“Also, how valuable is a real estate agent? Especially as a buyer, why would I need one?”
You don’t need one, unless you feel need include more commission in your bid and you need an extra person involved in the deal to mess it up. You don’t need to figure out what paperwork is neccessary. The selling agent will do that, and if you have any doubt, there are a number of do it yourself real estate books which are more than adequate for dispensing the neccessary info.
The idea that you need a “professional” to represent you is kinda funny when you think back and try to remember how many re agents you have met or known who were professionals.
I have serious doubts as to why there needs to be any re agents involved in an re transaction. It seems likely that the two parties are paying for an unneccessary service and there is just one or two more people involved whose main motivation is to close and who many times have a tendency to lie to get the deal closed.
I have heard of a backhanded compliment, but this is the first time I have seen a forehanded insult.
They split the comission, if you have a buyer’s agent, which is a good idea if you are a first time buyer. But otherwise, you pay the same, but to only one agent.
If there is only one agent involved and you make a lower offer, the agent is very likely to re-negotiate their commission in order to close the deal. It is of little use to have a buyer’s agent in any circumstance. It is much better to have a trusted and experienced friend or relative to give advice.
Agents like to say the seller is paying the commissions, but guess where the moolah is coming from.
“It is of little use to have a buyer’s agent in any circumstance. ” that’s a very scary advice you are giving. Have you seen the paperwork involved and liability? Why do you think agents have insurance and get sued?
“It is much better to have a trusted and experienced friend or relative to give advice.” And will these friends and relatives be there to help you if things go wrong?
“Agents like to say the seller is paying the commissions, but guess where the moolah is coming from.” Obviously from the one paying for the house. Seller will want the asking price regardless of the commission. Have you ever seen FSBO, For Sale By Owners and how they wanted the same prices without agents involved?
What you say is just downright scary. Sure there are rotten apples everywhere but telling someone to forgo a professional is cheap talk, especially for a buyer, that’s altogether scary. Another thing is that buyer’s agent don’t usually get half of that commission. And let’s not get into the debate of how commissions are split between brokers and agents.
Yikes: “You don’t need to figure out what paperwork is neccessary. ” really? Where do you base that assumption? Have you actually seen the paper work? Do you know what is involved? Have you ever been in a situation where the seller didn’t disclose everything? Had you had a real professional, chances are you wouldn’t be in that predicament.
“The selling agent will do that, and if you have any doubt, there are a number of do it yourself real estate books which are more than adequate for dispensing the neccessary info.” The selling agent has fiduciary duty to his seller, not the buyer. You seem to say agents mess up things, yet you assume an agent will work for someone else without contracts. Weird.
And if books could teach everything, why do we still have so many professionals out there? Does everyone have time to plunge into books and become masters?
Have you thought about what you are saying? Better yet, have you actually seen what happpens when things go bad? Do you have an insurance? Has it ever come in handy in your life.
Seriously guys, there are plenty of instances where the middle man can be ousted but with hundreds of thousands of dollars (and not yours, apparently) you are giving very light advice there.
This is a litigious world. Beware. People can get freaky and when things happen you are stuck on your own.
I am involved in both real estate and collector car transactions. There is a reason why I do what I do. If you hear the things that I see…
The amount of paperwork and liability is not decreased by having another agent in the way and collecting commissions. There is no reduction of liability by having a buyer’s agent. The reason insurance is required and agents are sued is because they do a lousy job of “representing” their clients.
The idea that an agent will “be there to help you when things go wrong” is a joke once they have gotten their commission. Yes, my friends and family will be there. They are my friends and family. The first thing an agent will do if something goes wrong will be to try and cover their rear end.
Sellers are much more willing to negotiate away some of the agent’s commission than they are willing to negotiate away their net.
It isn’t cheap talk. It is prudent reality, and it is only scary because fear is a re agent’s number one emotion they use to motivate folks to do that which is not beneficial to their situation. Neither my father or I have used a buyer agents on at least the last seven properties we have purchased and without a doubt, the deal runs much smoother with one less self-interested agent in the way.
Again, very few agents are “professionals”, so I am not advising to forgo a professional. I am advising to forgo a leach.
Why do you think re agents are the fifth least trusted occupation? You can’t have it both ways. There are good reasons re agents have such bad reputations.
Ratemyagent.org is available. Somebody scoop it up quick!
Nick – Please accept my sincere apology. I should not have used leach. I should have used unneccessary commission.
Really? I haven’t bought or sold with them, but while browsing open houses, we ran into Eric who was quite helpful in educating us about the various areas of Irvine, and why one area was at a premium over the other, and which areas might best fit what we needed. Quite gentlemanly and helpful.
Also, we had an eye on one of his listings and noticed when all the other open houses which are to end at a certain time have gone home 20 minutes early, Eric’s sign is still there and he is still sitting in the house ready to answer questions from buyers. He certainly seems hard working.
Another intersting random link
Various Orange County real estate related graphs
http://www.ouragentspot.com/sthomas/MarketCharts.pdf
“You don’t need to figure out what paperwork is neccessary. ” really? Where do you base that assumption? The paperwork will be neccessary whether there is a buying agent or not. The selling agent is responsible to bring all neccessary paperwork and disclosures to the table. Isn’t this true? And the idea the the buying agent is somehow more motivated to disclose any more than is absolutely neccessary is somewhere between ridiculous and just plain silly. Both the buyers and sellers agent are motivated to do the same thing, which is to get the deal closed with as much of the buyers money on the table as possible. Neither one has any more motivation to work in the buyers interest than the other.
If the buyer truely feels he/she needs help understanding the paperwork, they would be much better represented by hiring a re attorney who is not paid by commission and paid only if the deal closes. On a $500,000 deal, for two hours, an attorney will cost between $600 and $1000, but the supposed buyer’s agent help will cost about $12,500.
I do not assume the seller’s agent will work for the buyer, nor am I stupid enough to believe that the buyer’s agent is working for the buyer. The method in which the buyer’s agent gets paid creates a conflict of interest. At least without a buyer’s agent, the buyer knows exactly where they stand and has no illusions that anyone is looking out for them except themselves.
And if books could teach everything, why do we still have so many professionals out there?
We don’t have professionals in re agents. Again, why do you think re agents have such an absolutely dismal reputation? 95 out of 100 re agents have no business calling themselves professionals. They are scare tatic salesman.
I can’t seem to edit the above so, it should read, “and payment does nto depend on the deal closing.”, as regards the re attorney.
Hey, no problem. Really, there truly are some of us who are truly working for clients. I’ve been burned too many times. I don’t feel like a leech 😉
I agree with you partly that many agents do a horrendous job. But there are serious agents that stick behind whatever happens because they are in it for the reputation.
Paperwork, is intense. A good agent will know the pitfalls and should tell you what to look out for. A good agent should be able to spot out problems in the home and neighborhood without steering you one direction or another.
I agree with you: “Sellers are much more willing to negotiate away some of the agent’s commission than they are willing to negotiate away their net.” but guess what happens when you get less commission in one case and more in another? Even the listing agent turns to the project that will yield more.
There I disagree: “It is prudent reality, and it is only scary because fear is a re agent’s number one emotion they use to motivate folks to do that which is not beneficial to their situation.” It’s like saying all Realtors are bad. You sure don’t speak for me. Should I tell you how many clients I have walked away from both sellers and buyers? Fear is not an emotion for some of us.
All in all, the “boom” has attracted some bad apples who thought they could make a killing. Well, I’ve never seen a profession where you earn every single penny you make, that is if, and only if, you do it correctly, thinking of your client.
I agree that some agents are not worth the money and trust some people put in them. You can’t imagine the things I have seen where as a listing agent, you have to cover the buyers because their agents just doesn’t do their work. My biggest fears aren’t sellers and buyers, there are other agents.
Yes there are good reasons why Realtors rank so low on the totem pole. I see it every day but it’s so frustrating when for the ones who do a good job.
Ultimately, in the end, the storm will pass. A lot of agents don’t make money “as advertised”. Agents make around $35,000 on an average a year. Only a very small percentage make over $100,000. I know for sure, they are starving and judging by the desperate calls we are getting, they will be off the market soon… I hope.
I just have a different philosophy and I’m a Buddhist at heart. I trust the little guys more than the big corporates. Our office has such a great reputation we are not only in business but doing good despite.
I still believe you need a preal professional (call it that, if you wish) to represent you and help you waddle in the paperwork. Unless you are an attorney and know how to break contracts, telling someone spending on an average $550,000 without a professional is dangerous.
You need a trusted professional. Here is one of them many was. Go to the DRE website and see if they have a real license and no cases against them.
Thanks, it has been truly enlightening.
“The selling agent is responsible to bring all neccessary paperwork and disclosures to the table. Isn’t this true? ” Yes, but have you ever seen a seller that discloses everything? That’s why you need another party that will go after this, in this case, someone representing the buyer.
“Both the buyers and sellers agent are motivated to do the same thing, which is to get the deal closed with as much of the buyers money on the table as possible.” Not me, I want to sleep at night. I want the deal to go as smoothly as possible and find the lowest for my buyers. Of course, for my seller, I will try to get the best market price and have walked away from them when they were outrageous in their demands.
“On a $500,000 deal, for two hours, an attorney will cost between $600 and $1000, but the supposed buyer’s agent help will cost about $12,500.” True if everything goes well. But how will it cost when you move in and found out the seller didn’t disclose a lot of things he maybe knew, maybe didn’t know? More than $12,500. It’s an insurance dilemma. You can chose not to take it, but you’re on your own when something happens.
I still haven’t seen any FSBO’s relatives come to the rescue when there are problems. But it doesn’t mean some do.
In the end, I do feel the same way you do about most agents. The trick is finding the right ones. There are many buyers agents who really work for their clients to avoid pitfalls. There are many people who are ethical and want in for the long run. I work on reputation, not how much I gather. And I think the pecentage is even more dismal than 5%! Or maybe you guys have really bad agents down there 😉
“I can’t seem to edit the above so, it should read, “and payment does nto depend on the deal closing.”, as regards the re attorney.”
I’m not sure I follow you there. I don’t know of attorneys that work like that. And with the glut of attorneys in CA, I would find one like that suspicious, though it should be that way.
IR,
Great job with your agent ranking post. I like this one the most.
Here is your list of agent ranking catagory:
***Largest Number of Sales
***Highest Sales Rate
***Lowest Sales Rate
***Dishonorable Mention”
There is one important catagory that I think you missed:
****Highest Fraudulant/Early Default Sales Rate****
The reason I think it is an important catagory is because these agents contributed greatly to housing bubble, which is seemed to be the main topic of this blog. Without these cooperative agents to facilitate fraudulant transactions, there would be no deal!!!!
And I have to warn you, you might be in shock once these agents are exposed, and that you will have lawyers contacting you to shut down this blog! Good luck!!!!!!!!!!
That would take more effort to track, but it would be a worthwhile endeavor.
I am glad you liked the post, and I hope your name is in one of those first two lists 🙂
Yea, I just can’t seem to type or even think. Let me try again.
The attorney is not paid by commission and has no interest in whether the deal closes or fails, therefore he/she is more likely to able to look at the deal objectively.
But, to your other points, you keep assuming that having a buyer’s agent somehow gets the buyer better disclosure or more information or anything, but, as long as the buyer’s agent is paid by commission on sales price and upon close of the deal, the buyer’s agent is no more motivated to act in the interest of the buyer than the seller’s agent. They get paid by the deal closing, therefore their main motivation is to get the deal closed. Forget some pie in the sky altruism, or some sleep at night cliche. Their motivation is their commission. That is reality. And their commission is based on the buyer knowing as little as possible and paying as much as possible.
But, if the buyer’s agent was paid a straight fee, without regard to a sale or a closing, they would be much more motivated to act in the interest of their client. It is too bad folks are so brainwashed into thinking the seller is paying the commission. Reality is that the money is coming from the buyer and the seller is just deciding how to divy it up amoungst the players.
You keep refering to the scare tatic of “what if there are problems”. The idea that a re agent is going to work to do anything but cover their keester if there are problems is ludicrous. I can just imagine a recent buyer calling their buyer’s agent after the deal has closed. “There is water coming from underneath the carpet and the plumber says much of the foundation and the plumbing needs to be replaced.” Yea, the buyers agent is going to act in the interest of the buyer at that point. If you believe that …
IR,
Thank you. Nope, I did not make it to the first 2 lists.:)
I have to agree with awgee on the above discussion. One agent in a transaction is more than enough. And with home warranties these days a lot of the basic repair issues are covered.
If agents were really professionals it would take more than just registering for a class and passing a 3 hour and 15 minute exam. It looks to me like agents don’t even have to be high school graduates.
That’s why I didn’t find Nick’s joke funny. I know it’s usually done about lawyers. But in their case they have to pass 3 years of post-graduate work and a two DAY exam. Hopefully this weeds out most of the incompetence and you’re left with only the ethically challenged, which you have to a greater or lesser degree in any profession.
When it comes to real estate agents, the 99% number is too close to the mark to be amusing.
Basically real estate agents are salespeople. Like my brother says, “All they do is unlock the door for you.” If you ask them any legal or financial advice they refer you to someone else. I really don’t understand why they think the services they provide entitle them to a chunk of your property’s value. If they really had the client’s best interest at heart, they would have maximum charges for what they do.
I have worked with agents buying property, selling property, and managing my rental property. I haven’t met one yet I respect. My agent for my rental property is absolutely horrendous – doesn’t even return my calls sometimes. But I’m stuck with her as long as I keep the tenant. Which is worth the aggravation as I got lucky with a great tenant.
Anyway, I think with the advent of the internet they are losing power slowly but surely, just look at the recent, desperate ads attempting to convince the public that what agents do is so much more valuable than what a computer can do.
I actually took all of the courses to pass the agent licensing exam in another state. (I just moved cross country before I took the exam so I figured it wasn’t worth pursuing since California wouldn’t recognize my out of state license.) I asked the instructor, who was a broker in that state, what she thought of the agents that just charge a flat fee to list your home on the internet. Her response was that as a buyer’s agent she could obviously tell which listings those were, and, I quote, “I might show my client that house, but it would be the LAST (her emphasis) one I show.” How is that in the client’s best interest?
That sounds like an awful lot of house, pool and garage for a mere 10,000 sf lot.
Is it actually built? It says build date 2007. Who builds that and then sells it immediately?
you didn’t mention Realtors like me who do not take on unrealistic sellers
I don’t get why any would want to waste their time with anything else.
What’s better, 2.5% of $500,000 deal that happens by the end of the month, of 3% of a $700,000 deal that isn’t going to happen?
Or do they think they’ll just stiff all the work and if a deal falls in their lap, they get the 3%?
I’ve thought about getting my RE license, but I’d target being on the second list, granted you’d want more than 4 sales a year, what’s their take on that? Figure 2.5% for half the deal, the RE Broker takes how much? 1/3rd, 1/2 of that? More? So on an average 92603 house at $960,000, if top sales rate 7-10 made all their sales in 92603, they’d make $64,000 before taxes, expenses? Assuming the broker only takes 1/3rd of the commission.
If you’re averaging $600,000 homes, looks like you probably nearly need to make one sale a month clear six figures. Of course, that’s sell side only. There’s the buyer side, which we don’t see.
I have a successful broker as a client and his expenses for marketing are huge. HUGE
“Forget some pie in the sky altruism, or some sleep at night cliche.” It’s not an altruism, I live like that. Have you ever considered that some people are honest? Seriously. Do you want me to start making fun of your cliches? Will get the discussion in a better place?
A seller’s agent in this normal world will look for the highest price regardless of what the buyer needs, if I follow your logic. So I don’t understand how you can think a seller’s agent is all the protection you need. If that is your point.
“Their motivation is their commission. That is reality. And their commission is based on the buyer knowing as little as possible and paying as much as possible.” I don’t disagree with you there, many work like that but it’s a fast changing market. I’m getting more and more people coming to me now than I’ve had for a long time. I can show you a lot of people who don’t work like that, period!
“…the seller is just deciding how to divy it up amoungst the players.” I don’t know how you get to that point. The commission is written in the contract and at close of escrow is sent to the brokers who then divide it amongst themselves. The seller does not get involved with “giving” the commission. And yes, very obviously, the money comes from the buyer. Anyone who doesn’t know that just needs to think.
“scare tatic”? Seriously, are you in this business? I’m not using scare tactics but I do plenty warn those who do it alone and lose a lot. What can I tell you, I’ve seen it all so many times. People get burned with hundred of thousands of dollars. Hardly something to gamble with. Do you gamble with that kind of money? If so, I don’t think you should be telling people to forgo an extra layer of protection.
Again, I am not disagreeing with you in general but: “I can just imagine a recent buyer calling their buyer’s agent after the deal has closed. “There is water coming from underneath the carpet and the plumber says much of the foundation and the plumbing needs to be replaced.” Yea, the buyers agent is going to act in the interest of the buyer at that point. If you believe that …” ” And of course, you will trust the plumber, right? I can vouch for a few other times when I saw title companies and broker step up to the plate. And guess who is still in business? Guess who is having a hard time? Yup, the ones who raked in but didn’t follow through.
“The attorney is not paid by commission and has no interest in whether the deal closes or fails, therefore he/she is more likely to able to look at the deal objectively.” Yes, as long as nothing happens, you are right. But when something happens because not everything was properly disclosed, what happens then? I look at a deal very objectively. My questions are simple; Is this the best move for my client? How will this effect them? What will they say at the end of the transaction. And I can assure you with that in mind, you do the ethical thing. Period. It doesn’t take a genius to do that or even think that.
Look, this is going nowhere. People are brainwashed all the time because we have a crazy society that leaves very little time for thinking. We have perfect drones going to work and coming home to watch reality TV. Guess what happens when those who are less than ethical start to think a little and start to rip off others? This is why we have too many agents, too many lawyers, too many car mechanics who gladly rip off people. So your solution is to have less of them? Well how about putting out a welcome mat to the crooks. Come on in, no one is watching!
So what’s to do? Think the seller’s agent will disclose everything? Seriously, what if he/she was not told everything? Wouldn’t it be great having a truly unbiased agent asking the right question, which by the way, with years of experience will uncover many things a seller, even a veteran seller won’t know to ask. Having a trusted buyer’s agent helps you avoid pitfall and dig through 50 pages of very legal papers where you can sign away hundred of thousands of dollars. I don’t understand how you can argue otherwise. Maybe you’ve missed the point of this debate which is to say there are honest professionals out there?
Going out there with little protection is insane. Have you heard about the latest “help” foreclosure scams? How many jump in there without talking to a trusted agent? How many have already lost their homes?
Very obviously, a lot of realtors don’t do a good job but don’t put everyone in the same bag. I can equally say that as a consumer, I am guilty of trying to take out the middle man but there is a time when it involves hundreds of thousands of dollars, I am going to look for an experienced and trusted professional and not hoping some family member will recoup $500,000 or more. People have to do the homework. There are less than ethical people out there but there are also very ethical ones. Chose the right ones but don’t go out there thinking a seller agent is all you need.
You make good points and I can equally tell you I have told buyers to beware with such and such properties. When I followed who bought the properties, well obvious things happened. They were ill-advised and no one was there to return their calls.
I have been a service person ever since I can remember and have not only returned calls very promptly but went the extra miles to resolve any situations, regardless of fault. Some people don’t have the time to shop around, they look for someone else to do it.
As far as your rental dilemma, it sounds a lot like what many people do, just let it go. Damn, I’m a stubborn mule. When an agent doesn’t respond, I change them and really do my homework and look for someone who does a better job.
Talking about warranties or title reports, do you know how many levels there are and how little people know about it? I know there are many levels of reports I can find, and guess which reports I always ask for? The ones with the most details. They are thick but boy, do they paint an accurate image. Same thing with warranties. I have seen many companies drop the ball. And there you are with your warranties. I only trust two companies to this day. Even with that, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars without a good agent to represent you is folly. If you were talking about hundreds, I’d still think you were a little cavalier but this is beyond courage.
I don’t see where you would get the idea I am taking sides. I am clearly saying use a professional to represent you. I don’t believe a lawyer is the best thing to do because you will need to real estate lawyer and those numbers quoted above are not what they charge, plus when you need to go to court it will cost you a pretty penny, much more than the ideal 6% no one really gets anymore. I agree in most parts, a lot of Realtors do a horrendous job and I am not thrilled how the industry is reacting. But it’s like a bad wave, you ride it out and the ones who do a good job stand on top.
You guys are using the worse examples and what I am getting out of it is that I’m doing good, I don’t have these problems in my professional life. But I am financially secured, so I don’t have to take silly risks. There lies the problem. There are agents that have been lured by the signs those idiotic companies for easy money, chances escalate they might cut a corner or two.
I would be very careful doing any fraud agents list. That puts the blog writers in a possible position to be sued for libel.
LOL ! Even though I want to draft NIR, I haven’t seen her stats !
Sure, there are a few agents with integity. But, there aren’t enough to able to find or trust the few who are. So, the best thing to do is to assume the worst and take full responsibility for every move you make. You keep thinking that a buyer’s agent will represent the best interest of the buyer. It is my experience they won’t. And if you listen, you will find that many buyers, if not most, have the same experience as myself with re agents.
You keep on saying the reason to have a buyer’s agent is in case something goes wrong. Well, guess what? We have all had buyer’s agents and could not even count on them when things go right. And we should think that magically they will somehow do the right thing when things go wrong? We aren’t stupid. We know who we are dealing with. RE agents have a bad reputation for a reason. So we should just ignore that and use a buyer’s agent in case things go wrong? Why in the world would anyone be stupid enough to think that an agent is going to somehow save them money?
I want you to hear something. It has been my experience that neither the buyer’s agent nor the seller’s agent are looking out for the best interest of the buyer. And if you listen, I think you will find that I am in the majority.
Do you think re agents have gotten the reputation they have because they have done a good job of representing their clients and their clients are just stupid?
Instead of arguing with me, you may want to read what folks in this blog have to say about re agents. And then just consider that maybe they have good reason to figure that a supposed professional will not act in their best interest, save them money, or work for their benefit if something goes wrong.
So far, what I hear is that you are telling me that it is best for me to have an agent involved in the deal in case something goes wrong, when in my experience, it is the agent who causes the problems. Did you really hear what Patience was saying to you? Your response was to get rid of the agent. Well, that is what Patience and I are saying. Get rid of the agent. Did you hear that Patience has not met one agent that he/she finds trustworthy? Why do you think that is? I’ll give you a hint. It isn’t Patience’s faulty perception.
If you want folks to value a buyer’s agent, don’t use scare tactics on us. It is all we hear from agents. Instead, change your industry so that the agents are trustworthy and neccesary. Right now they are neither.
Patience,
Have you ever made a home warranty claim? I can tell you for a fact they cover nothing. Nada. Zip.
Good luck trying.
It is nothing more than a scam – and a very successful scam at that, seeing how they get a piece of every sale in the USA.
IrvineRenter,
I mean no disrepect, but you have had an ad on your homepage for some time that is for a real estate broker.
There are not a lot of serious places out there. You have to be very careful.
“So, the best thing to do is to assume the worst and take full responsibility for every move you make.” I don’t live like that and fortunately I don’t have that in my life. It’s a different philosophy but I concentrate on positive things and do everything so that they happen. Just a different choice.
“You keep thinking that a buyer’s agent will represent the best interest of the buyer. It is my experience they won’t. And if you listen, you will find that many buyers, if not most, have the same experience as myself with re agents.” I beg to differ. I find the opposite actually BUT most of the people I hear this from are the same ones that come back to us. In all honesty, I also don’t hear from others. Again, different philosophies attract different results in life.
“You keep on saying the reason to have a buyer’s agent is in case something goes wrong. Well, guess what? We have all had buyer’s agents and could not even count on them when things go right. And we should think that magically they will somehow do the right thing when things go wrong? We aren’t stupid.” You’re not stupid but you sure can’t seem to read what I am writing. So maybe reread it again.
awgee, I don’t think you’re reading me correctly at all. I said I agree mostly that a lot of agents don’t act professionally. When you don’t like one, chose another and a trusted one. So far I’ve agreed with you two on most parts but you seem more hell bent on saying all agents are crooks. So maybe you can reread my posts and then come back with better points.
All I know is I don’t have these problems in my life and neither do my clients, at least from my side. How much clearer can this be.
Thanks, it’s been interesting but I’d rather continue a conversation if you actually reread my posts.
Me?
Then let me rephrase: “we don’t take enough advertising dollars from realtors to care whether or not they continue to advertise with us.”
And Janet, curious, huh? I think you do mean to be disrespectful.
Yeah, we would probably have to prove it.
Perhaps we could compile a list of realtors who participate in suspicious transactions which strongly give the appearance of fraud?
Sorry but I lost the thread here. Who’s on first? Who’s advertising? What’s going on? Really confused here.
Darn, this is taking too much time.
The multi-identity poster was commenting on my statement which opened the post where I said we don’t take money from realtors. Apparently there is a sponsored link which probably makes the blog 5 cents a month, so she was calling me out as a liar. She was technically correct, so I posted a qualifying statement which more accurately reflects the state of affairs.
Got it.
Yes, I thought as much. These people always do the same on any forum regardless the topic. I guess it’s not worth feeding them energy.
Shame on you, five cents a month! ROLOL 😉
You do a great job. As someone who is involved in real estate, you make me laugh and we need that. Keep up the good work. And let fools be!… in this case, exposed.
Thanks
I sure have. On one home I got a garage door spring fixed (must have been very old style garage door opener – I couldn’t even lift the door manually). On a condo I got a sink fixed and a water heater replaced. Of course I had to pay the deductible but that was only $50. So I’ve had pretty good experiences with home warranties.
I second above opinion.
Well, although I had a decent experience my last time with a “buyer’s agent”, let me tell you this. She showed me about 8 properties, but none were “it”. So I went on Realtor.com and located another house I liked and thought to myself, “in this small town, how did she not show me this one”? I called her the next day and we made an appt and I promptly made an offer that afternoon, it was perfect.
This is what I found out at closing. That the commission was only 2% for the buyers agent and 3% for the listing agent. Uh, that’s why she didn’t show me the house. Soooo, was she working for me, or against me. sigh.
That’s a normal commission, if you can call it normal. The listing agent gets more because they pay for all the advertising. In my case advertisings range from $2,500 to 3,000 for brochures alone. And no, I don’t work in Orange County. The buyer agent finds the place and weeds out the kinks. Normally! Yikes afraid someone will take all this out of proportion again.
Unfortunately, a lot of agents don’t work with buyers anymore and only want listings. That’s where the money is. One reason is that a lot of buyers are particularly hard to deal with.
Here is a story that happens very frequently to agents. A buyer asks you to find a home. You ask the buyer if they work with another agent (you don’t want to have problems). Buyer says no. You show many homes according to their desires. You find the right one. You negotiate for them. Get the lowest price (yes, it does exist!). Then at the last minute, the buyers show you their agent and the other agent walks off with the whole deal without having done a thing. It’s happened to me and it happens a lot. Now imagine an agent with little ethics and imagine how they would react next time? Imagine what the buyers think they can get away with also?
Obviously, you are dealing with people who have low ethics on both side. It’s a maddening cycle that someone has to break at one point.
In your case, the agent should have sent you a lot of places and gaged what you wanted better.
I am sure you could, but you may want to construct and word those posts very carefully…
Well Nick, I disagree with you. The house I bought is in Connecticut and the norm is a 3% – 3% split right down the middle. The town is tiny and there were only about 10 houses for sale in my price range at that time (so she said)….so, I saw all of them and didn’t like any. THEN I went onto Realtor.com myself and found my little house that I eventually ended up buying. I didn’t connect the dots about the commission thing until later and why she hadn’t shown it to me (as it fit all of my criteria, and had been on the market for 8 months, so it wasn’t a new listing she “missed”….these small town realtors know EVERY house for sale in their town) . So no, that is not the typical commission break down in CT where the average home price hovers only around 250K…..Unless you are speaking for them too ?
These posts are longer than the dead sea scrolls!!
I think both Nick and Awgee make good points. I tend to side with Awgee because he, like me, seems to be a financially enlightened soul.
But please remember that those who post on this blog are probably not representative of the nation as a whole. For lack of a better phrase, there are some real dumbasses out there. You can of course argue that those people shouldn’t be home owners.
Remember, Awgee, we can most easily decipher the required paperwork and inspections for a purchase, but the vast majority of people don’t know sh*t about buying a home. They wouldn’t even know where to begin. Some people don’t even have internet access. Highly educated intelligent people tend to surround themselves with people of like mind. If the people we interact with on a daily basis don’t need realtors than it’s easy to transfer that assumption on to everyone.
before I start a sexist debate, I’d like to apologize to Awgee for assumng that you are a “he”
lendingmaestro is spot on. The fact that we are on a forum discussing housing prices and trends puts us in a completely different group than the general public. There are many people who barely understand interest rates and how to calculate their payments. Just the other day, I was at a family party and a doctor was sharing how he is now making 2 payments per month vs. 1 and his loan is magically ending in 25 years vs. 30! We all laugh but there are many people like this.
Also, Nick is absolutely right regarding the need for representation on such a large purchase. Now whether that is worth 1%, 3% or a a flat fee is debatable but the idea of making such a large purchase without anyone looking over my shoulder makes me nervous. In any case, many of us feel that the arguements for having an agent always boil down to fear. Nick, can you share some specific examples of the value you have added to your clients?
To start off, I can provide a positive example that my friend went through recently in buying a townhouse in Santa Monica. SM housing is extremely hard to get into and there are still competing offers. My friend’s agent was able to find out what the other offers were like, what the buyers ideal move out date was, etc and was able to craft an offer that pretty much gauranteed my friends the place. They might have been able to do this on their own but it would be very hard for them as they arent sales people and negotiating isn’t their thing.
I think most of us reading this blog already have a negative perception about agents and I doubt many of us seek out really good agents. Rather, we just meet the numerous fly by night folks who came in to make an easy buck. People like Nick and NIR give me some hope that decent agents exist out there.
lending maestro, et al., agreed, absolutely, many folks need help with a large and complicated purchase, as do I.
I don’t question that folks need help and the procedure is complicated.
I don’t question that there a few honest agents out there. I know two. Well, maybe one.
The issue is that with so few honest agents, there is no reason to think that a buyer’s agent will add any positive input for the buyer. Both the buyer’s agent and the seller’s agent have the same agenda. The main priority for both agents is to close the deal with as few problems as possible and with the highest commission possible. My point is that the buyer’s agent has no more motivation to look out for the interest of the buyer than the seller’s agent, so there is no reason to have a buyer’s agent involved. And if the buyer needs help, which most of us do, it is in the buyer’s interest to find an objective third party who’s motivation is not primarily to close the deal.
It is also in the interest of both the buyer and the seller to have only one agent involved because at negotiation time, there is more money on the table for both the buyer and seller with one less commission involved. It is disingenuous and dishonest for one to justify the two commissions by saying the contract is signed with the listing agent and already includes the commission. At negotiation time, everything is on the table and every listing agent out there is willing to lower that commission if there is no buyer agent involved.
Instead of pushing the agenda of a need for buyer’s agents, realtors should be listening to the customers, question why folks are trending toward internet and discount brokers, and push for more integrity in their business.
For those of you who have children, when you catch them in a lie, how exactly would you react if they told you they were just “puffing”?
Awgee, you’re talking about dual agency which scares the bejesus out of everyone because people feel in this particular case, the agent acts on behalf of both, which could make him the perfect person to get the higher price and get more commission. If you have another person from another company, the playing field is a little more even.
I don’t know how it works in your neck of the woods but over here (just North of you) the normal transactions happen like this. If I take on a listing and another agent from another company finds a buyer it comes down to 5%, split 3 to 2 BETWEEN broker and the broker splits it again with the agent (depending on their contract). If Someone from my office sells, the commission is 4.5%. If I sell it’s 4%.
To answer your often used scare tactic that people are rushing to the internet, 75% start off their search on the Internet 100% sign in person, only 14% or so ONLY do it through the Internet, according to NAR.
“At negotiation time, everything is on the table” that’s a cute assumption and rarely happens. The real world is more intricate than that.
I’m glad to see you agree on a few things.
Of the top of my head, the last example was first time buyers who wanted to have a garden. I take on any buyers and sellers even though we do very high end properties. They wanted to see a very cute home in an awful neighborhood. I showed them the home. It was perfectly remodeled. In the end, I looked outside at the neighborhood. They saw that it would be dangerous to live. Knowing them, as I do, they would have bought into it without thinking twice. It wasn’t the right place as they said. That’s an example of a neutral third party. I kissed my commission goodbye and still have clients looking with all it incurs, gas, time, phone calls, etc.
Another positive story is getting a hug from a buyer for finding the perfect property and helping them through the transaction. That is priceless.
I agree with you: “I think most of us reading this blog already have a negative perception about agents and I doubt many of us seek out really good agents.” We are consumers and by definition we complain. Very few of us actually do something and call it out instead of yapping.
There are good stories. I think Awgee just saw the worse of it and can’t move past it.
Again, the fault is irrelevant when you have a problem, the solution is what everyone needs to focus on instead of blaming. The fault can be dealt with later.
Hi Trooper, that Connecticut, not California. I sold my condo in Danburry. I know how it works there. It’s different everywhere.
In many states people use lawyers, not in California. This blog talks about Irvine, CA.
Now let me ask you a question. If you would put out thousands of dollars of advertisings and someone comes along, negotiates the price as low as possible without incurring those ad fees, how would you feel about splitting the fees? In this case, we would only have buyer agents and no one would want to list because you would make the same without paying for ads.
Thanks.
Is Newsweek taking advertising money from NAR and planting the ads as stories? I was surprised when I read my copy this week and found the following:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19649925/site/newsweek/
I expect publications like this to mark advertising sections clearly when they are presented as stories.
Anyway, it contains inaccurate information:
“If you’re just driving yourself from one open house to another, you’re missing homes buried in the multiple-listing services that only agents have access to. ”
Aside from ending the sentence with a preposition, this writer has obviously not done even the slightest bit of research for their piece. It seems they’ve never heard of the plethora of realty sites with this information, starting with the blatantly obvious Realtor.com.
At least they do mention possible conflicts of interest and admit that agents may steer you to properties that are in their best interest, not yours.
ryan kashanchi rocks
Does anyone, realtor or not, have an opinion about working with Mac McKenzie?
It’s a great effort to make lists like this, and thank you. Very informative.
One thing I noticed, though. John McMonigle is listed as #1 in the lowest sales rate. But browsing through the real estate ads in the weekend paper, it looks like McMonigle specializes in very high-end properties (e.g. oftentimes in the $3 million+ range).
In a slow market, the super-high-end properties are likely to move particularly slowly. A low sales rate on his part isn’t necessarily a reflection on his performance. I understand that in some years, he’s been ranked nationally for total dollar value of sales.
Perhaps the “low sales rate” list should be supplemented with “median asking price” information for an agent’s listings, to show what segment of the market.
Thank you, Scott
Anyone out there with an opinion of Realtor Mac McKenzie?
2004 – McMonigle (and his associates) sold properties totalling 201 million.
http://www.mcmoniglegroup.com/pdf/topAgent.pdf
2005 – McMonigle (and his associates) sold properties totalling 247 million.
http://www.ocmetro.com/archives/ocmetro_2006/metro042706/cover_2_042706.html
His website shows that he has 18 houses that are listed for over $10,000,000, with the top listed at 75 million bucks.
http://www.johnmcmonigle.com
So I would say that lowest sales rate might be a meaningless statistic in this case. On the other hand, highest sales rate might be a worthwhile statistic, especially when selling homes that cater to a bigger population base.
Other than that, please keep up the good work, I read this blog every day, along with the Implode-O-Meter, housebubble.com, etc.
-Doomsayer
[i]The end is near…..I’ll buy back in in 18-24 months [/i]
Can it be true that realtor mac mckenzie has never had a listing expire?